Thursday, October 13, 2011

WHFB: Ogre Kingdoms Review Conclusion


Hola amigos, ready to put this one to bed?



Now that all the elements of the army book have been looked at individually, let’s take a step back and look at the army as a whole and how it plays from a competitive standpoint.

Their main strength is the toughness and combat ability of the army.  They are high toughness and multi-wound monsters, which makes them difficult to kill from shooting and combat.  And they hit ferociously hard, especially if they get the charge off.  So any list that is looking to maximize Ogres needs to focus on their strengths, as opposed to being too fancy with shooting units. 

I always say that you need to have a plan for how your list will win the game, and the Ogre plan is close combat backed up with defensive magic.  The Lore of Great Maw adds sick defense on top of an already tough army: this is what you need to capitalize on in a straightforward list.  If your “how will I win” plan veers too far from close combat and defensive magic, I think your list will begin to struggle.

The big weakness of the army is Initiative.  Between low Initiative and Great Weapons abounding, the army is slow in combat, and vulnerable to Initiative tests.  Luckily, there are many ways built into the book to work around this.  I would highly suggest you consider at LEAST one Thundertusk and it’s gamebreaking ASL bubble to even the combat odds against high initiative opponents.  Additionally, the ability to inflict impact hits heavily mitigates the low initiative.  The ability to get impact hits off, rather than being the one getting charged has a lot to do with generalship and maneuver, but remember there are items that make your charge further and move faster.  Those things will enable you to be the charger rather than chargee.  Use them. 

Your units are big, even with only 6 models, meaning they are vulnerable to warmachines, magical template attacks, and characteristic tests (like Initiative).  It is crucially important that you bring multiple casters so that you always have a chance to dispel.  One Pit of Shades or Purple Sun could do serious damage and you need to be set to prevent this.

So with that said, here is a sample list I would consider competitive out of the gate.  I certainly wouldn’t want to play against it with Dark Elves.  I’m not saying this is the best list possible, it surely isn’t, but it’s a good starting point.  It does the things that a good Ogre list should do and minimizes the weaknesses as much as possible.

Ogres 2,500

 Slaughtermaster
- L4
-Ironfist
-Ironcurse Icon
=293

 Bruiser
-BSB
-Crown of Command
-Sword of Striking
-Iron Fist
-Heavy Armor
=188

Butcher
-L2
-Iron Fist
-Dispel Scroll
=163

7x Ogres
-Iron Fists
-Musician
-Standard
=244

7x Ogres
-Iron Fists
-Musician
-Standard
=244

 7x Ironguts
-Musician
-Standard
-Standard of Discipline
=336

2x Mournfang Cavalry
-Greatweapons
-Heavy Armor
=146

2x Mournfang Cavalry
-Greatweapons
-Heavy Armor
=146

2x Mournfang Cavalry
-Greatweapons
-Heavy Armor
=146

Gourger
=90

Thundertusk
=250

Thundertusk
=250

Total: 2,496

Basically, the list tries to get key Great Maw spells off, hit insanely hard with combo charges of Ogres and Mournfangs, and keep everything within an ASL bubble so your opponents are brought down to your level.  It has a Gourger to ambush targets of opportunity and to keep your opponent from playing keep away.

Thoughts?

7 comments:

  1. Can't really critisize your list since I don't know much about ogres. I got the Army Book today however and made a list of my own.

    Slaughtermaster, Level 4, Grut Sicke, 335

    Bruiser, BSB, Heavy Armour,Ironfist, Rampager's Standard,
    Lookout Gnoblar, 198

    Butcher, Lv2, 135

    6 Ogres, Standard, Lookout Gnoblar, Ironfists, 207

    6 Ogres, Ironfists, 192

    6 Ironguts, Standard Bearer, Lookout Gnoblar, Dragonhide Banner, 323

    4 Mournfang Cavalry, Heavy Armour, Ironfists, 280

    5 Maneaters,Brace of Pistols, 310

    Iron Blaster, 170

    Stonehorn, Harpoon Launcher, 250


    Not sure on the Grut Sicke but I think it's kinda sweet to cast Bullgorger and Toothcracker in with one die.

    Really not sure what to give to the BSB but with Rampager's you could pull a second turn charge. He will go with the Ogre unit that doesn't have a standard.

    Having seen your list I think 2 x 2 Mournfang Cavalry is much better than 1 x 4. Especially when they multicharge with a larger unit. To be honest though, I prefet 2+ and 6++ saves than +2 Strength.

    With Maneaters (despite the fact that I love the models) I really like the idea of scout + sniper on them. Could be potentially game winning if you kill the opponents caster on the first turn. And if you don't, you could block one of his important units for a couple of turns.

    What do you think? Please critisize away as much as you want, I am not going to buy a single models before I put a fairly competitive list together.

    Cheers!

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  2. I like the list. I'd probably go with a second IRon Blaster over the stonehorn. And yeah, split up the mournfang into 2x2.

    Dragonhide Banner is good but not worth the points IMO. Go with Standard of Discipline. Use those extra points to beef up your Ogre units a bit.

    I am a big fan of the shooty Maneaters. Sniping a L4 on turn one will transform the game big time. And if you can get bonus mileage like killing a BSB afterwards you're in business.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Cheers, glad you like. Btw I can't stress this enough, just be brutally honest for my list, no nicieties needed here. I really want something that's going to work decently here before I spend any cash on these bad boys.

    So by dropping the DHB and getting SoD I save 35 points. I can get one more ogre with an Ironfist and also give the butcher an Ironfist.

    So you think the Grut's Sickle on the slaughter master is a good idea? Also, should I put the extra ogre in the BsB unit (since it's going to be pushing more forward than the Slaughtermaster's unit I suppose).

    Again, really not sure on the 5 maneater unit. Could be throwing them away first turn. I guess there are million other combination I could use them if the sniping + scout doesn't work out.

    Actually one thing I noticed about your list is the lack of Lookout gonoblars. Aren't you a bit anxious that your slaughtermaster could be sniped by a cannon first turn?

    Thanks again for the help.

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  4. Slaughtermaster, Level 4, Grut Sicke, Ironfist 338

    Bruiser, BSB, Heavy Armour,Ironfist, Banner of Swiftness,
    Lookout Gnoblar, 163

    Butcher, Lv2, Dispel Scroll, Great Weapon, 169

    7 Ogres, Standard, Lookout Gnoblar, Ironfists, 239

    6 Ogres, Ironfists, 192r

    6 Ironguts, Standard Bearer, Lookout Gnoblar, Standard of Discipline, 288

    2 Mournfang Cavalry, Heavy Armour, Ironfists, 140

    2 Mournfang Cavalry, Heavy Armour, Ironfists, 140

    5 Maneaters,Brace of Pistols, 310

    Iron Blaster, 170

    Stonehorn, Harpoon Launcher, 250

    New draft, I think this one is better. Butcher gonna go with the Ironguts so I gave him a great weapon since he has to be able to do the same job as them. Getting them to fight other ASL units would be best I guess but they could do very well against monsters and heavy armoured infantry too. I also gave him a dispel scroll since I think it's kinda important to avoid these pit of shades and purple suns.

    Slaughter master gonna go with the 7 ogre strong units. More wounds for him to use the Grut Sicke and I feel he is going to be more safe there.

    BSB with the other unit of ogres to give them his Ld8 and aid them in combat. I guess the plan is to have his unit in the middle of the army for maximum BSB usage. Also the slaughtermaster's unit goinna be next to him fairly central to the army and try to pull off the Trollgut spell to give all his units around him Regeneration. I think that's very essential in keeping the army alive and in the end winning the game.

    ReplyDelete
  5. My advice is...

    1. Playtest Maneaters first. They may be great, they may be crap. I think they are a potentially backbreaking unit, but they may also be a gimmick that a good opponent can manipulate.

    2. I'm not sure a stonehorn is better than the Thundertusk. That's also worth playtesting before you glue.

    3. If you trade in the maneaters, you can get a second iron blaster and another unit of mournfang cavalry. That's something I'd consider too.

    Hope this helps!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Cheers mate. I ordered my first Orge model the other day, the Thundertusk/Stonehorn kit. Planning to take my own sweet time to put it together, making sure I magnetise it so it can be used as both beasties. Haven't been so excited about a model in ages.

    Maneaters are very costly, no indy retailers sell them over here so I'll have to get them directly from GW at around 18 euros a pop (but then again they are some of my favourite models in the entire warhammer range). So it would be nice to see their usability before I venture in such a costly expense, but I guess they could work with some other special rules as well? Thanks for the advice again, I will let you know how it goes.

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  7. They got new rules for Rhinox Cavalry now. You think they are any good? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/Rhinox.pdf

    ReplyDelete