...you're bored with your Black Templars and Grey Knights and you have 50 or so Termintor models you haven't used in ages?
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| Soon to be Belial? |
Deathwing!
The only models I don't have right now are 6 bikers to be the melta contingent of the force, but I have the rest of the things I need: a suitable Belial model, 20 something assault terminators, 5 or so Cyclonators, Land Speeders of all configurations, Attack Bikes and so on. When you can have a whole new army for the price of 6 SM bikers, it's a doable task.
I know many of you have experience with Deathwing lists, especially in competitive situations, and I'd like your advice on how to write the list. I think the basic starting point is 5 units of DW and 3 units of RW for outflanking melta. It's a pretty straightforward list, but does it have the chops to win tournaments? Should I swap out some RW for Typhoons or HF/MM Speeders? My initial thoughts are adding Speeders as your only vehicles is a bad idea, but what do you think? Should Belial be TH/SS or TLC?
On a semi-related note, I have decided that I'm going to repaint all my Marines to match my Grey Knights. This way I can swap in and out the Rhinos/Razorbacks/Raiders/Speeders between all the different chapters I want to play. Plus, it will give me a chance to paint my Marines to a slightly higher standard than my 15 year old past self was able (or patient enough) to do. So I will have Silver Vanillas, Silver Templars, Silverwing, Silver Angels, Silver Knights, and so on ad infinitum. I know some people frown on that and to those folks I say: buy me 9 Rhino chassis per different marine force I want to play, and I'll paint them all differently. If you aren't willing to do that, plan on me playing a different Marine flavor every time I get bored and get the itch to change.
So between buying, assembling, and painting my 6 outstanding bikers, and painting up the Terminators I already have, I have enough hobby stuff to do to keep me occupied for the foreseeable future.
Alright, so back to the Deathwing, gimme your most thoughtful answers to my questions from above.
Going with either the Bikes or Speeders works well. Speeders will be a little better against infantry, and will save you points since they are super cheap. Bikes give some solid disruption and give a great anti-mech threat. It's worth noting that the Attack Bike in the RAS is always scoring, even when taken as a fast attack choice (though the other bikes are only scoring when troops). That gives a nice late-game objective grabber, though the bikes are usually fragile enough for the opponent to deal with them by game's end. Consider both the bikes and speeders expendable. Your opponent can erase them if he wants anyway.
ReplyDeleteOverall, you want to run at least 2 storm shields in each Deathwing squad, to ensure survivability vs low-AP weapons and power weapons in close combat. I usually run 3. A lot of people fill up each squad with 5 hammer/shield guys, but I really dislike not having anti-infantry firepower.
Almost every squad should run a chainfist, to make up for lack of melta vs AV14.
Belial should use Hammer & Shield. The 50% boost in durability makes him a solid contender in hand to hand vs actual melee capable units, and makes him able to take on most Monstrous Creatures solo without breaking a sweat.
This list uses its guns to suppress and dwindle enemy units and kills them off in assault. The whole army moves extremely slowly, which is why the cyclone is pretty much mandatory, and you need to have a plan for obtaining and contesting objectives throughout the whole game. Wasted movement will lose you games.
Assault is a great way to gain extra movement for getting into position, especially when it is against vehicles.
It will take a bit of work for you to really understand the whole army, but it is competitive when built properly. It's not gonna be the best army out there, due to the smaller toolbox and low unit count, but the durability of the core unit means you usually have the means of getting the job done.
This is an army where you will win small vs good opponents, but it will put out consistent performance. It's greatest weakness is overwhelming anti-infantry firepower, as your low unit count can't withstand the common statistical outliers such as rolling 3 1's on 4 armor saves.
Wow, excellent feedback, thanks!
ReplyDeleteI do the exact same thing with my marines. I created a DIY Space Marine chapter called the Shadow Guard. They were a purple, black, gray and silver scheme. After painting them, I really really loved how the army looked on the battlefield. So, I painted all of my Marine models that same color scheme. Now I have Shadow Wolves, Blood Guard, Shadow Guard, Shadow Knights, Shadow Angels, and Black Guard :P
ReplyDeleteI want you do know that I shed a tear in sadness. :(
ReplyDeletego deathwing. you won't regret it.
ReplyDelete@Laeroth, I'll be back to the Templar fold. I'm really bored with every Templar list right now and it seems like the good builds are known and any tweaks just make them worse. Once you're bored of the good builds it loses steam. I wish I was one of those people who enjoyed playing the same good list over and over again.
ReplyDeleteBut then again, if I was one of those people I'd probably be playing Space Wolves.
Go Deathwing!!!
ReplyDeleteI would suggest going Terminator Hardcore- and drop everything else.
5 man units with CML and every model having different gear (for wounding allocation shennanigans) and Belial with Chaplin or Librarian to counter pyskers and use his force weapon.
So you have:
HQ Belial 130
Librarian 130-50?
Troops
5 Termies-sarge,CML,C.fist,TH/SS,P.fist 250pts
Times 6...equals roughly 1750pts...
The poins are not exact but you get the picture ,if he opposition can deal with 30 termies ,they can win.
You have your chains fists to destroy AV 14, CML for everything else and don't separate your units- keep them supporting each other