Monday, November 8, 2010

Today In Awful Warseer Tactics Part 8: BoLS Lounge Edition

Warseer is dumb.  But let's forget about those retards for today, and let's focus on forumitis of a different sort: BoLS Lounge.  I rarely visit BoLS Lounge because it's not very active, and also because there are several know-nothing personalities there that derail every thread with talking about Footdar or Sisters of Battle.  

The Fantasy forum is even worse.  They get a handful of posts per day, and they are usually along the lines of "make my HE list better."  But there is one thread that rises above the rest.  I dare say it is the greatest example of forum idiocy in the history of Warhammer Fantasy "tactics" threads.  The thread in question is "How to beat MOK Marauder Horde in 8th."  Even I was unable to resist the allure of this thread: it was a mix of Drakr Noir and head lice medicine.  

The basic premise of this thread is that a horde of Marauders with mark of khorne and great weapons cost like 300ish points, and point for point, can defeat any other unit in the game.  The Marauders don't care if you kill 10 of them before they swing.  When they swing they will kill a dozen and a half of you back, and they will be steadfast in the process, and you will lose the combat.  So asking how to beat them is, at the surface, a worthwhile question that deserves an honest answer.  The actual answer is you don't fight them 1 on 1 in a head to head forward assault.  You shoot the fuck out of them since they don't have armor.  You magic them because they don't have armor.  You pie plate them with cannons and artillery.  You use redirectors to get a flank charge.  You multi-charge them with several strong units.  Any and all of the above are what I would consider basic Fantasy tactics.  If you don't 'get' the concept of re-directors, you aren't playing at a high level yet.  

I also want to talk more about multi-charges.  In Fantasy arguments, such as the thread in question, people ALWAYS assume a one on one, unit vs unit, frontal charge.  I want to know: who actually plays like that?  What game are you guys playing?  In the last dozen or so games of Fantasy I've played, at least 2/3rds of the charges in the game are multi-charges.  That's the whole point of the game.  Otherwise the game is rock, paper, scissors.  If  the first charge declared in every game isn't a multi-unit charge more often than not, you and your buddies are playing wrong.  

So the whole premise of asking "what unit beats this unit" is beyond inane.  You will NEVER be in a situation where that is actually a Sophie's Choice type dilemma.  Luckily, some of the posters get that, but even though they give the correct answers, it doesn't stop some of the "I smash my block into your block and hope for the best" tacticians from totally ignoring them.

Cruor Vault: I have been doing the math on a 50 man unit of Marauders with MoK, FC, Great Weapons.

Can anyone figure out how to beat this unit? Without having to spend 600-900ots doing it?

Easily.  I cast Purple Sun of Xerus and half the unit dies.  Then I shoot them for two turns with repeater crossbows.  And then maybe another Purple Sun.  Then they are down to about 12 guys left, I charge with a unit of Black Guard, or a Hydra, and they go poof.  That was easy.
Ultramarinefan: As far as I can tell there aren't any less expensive ways, the best solution I can come up with is to field a huge horde of your own(as cheap as possible, cheaper than the marauders is the idea) and just keep them locked in combat till the end of time.

Winter12:  Just use a cheap throwaway unit to the front (a couple of inches away) and move another, ranked unit to the flank. The Horde of Marauders has the choice of charging or standing there. If they charge, they destroy the throwaway unit, then get charged in the flank. If they don't charge they get charged in the flank. Lose/lose.

Winner.  Thread over.  Since this is part 8 of this series, you know it will never be that easy...
Tacoo: Would using Doom and darrkness (-3 ld), following by flank charging with a unit of horsemen with terror from dreadnight spell work?

Since you are assuming you get the magic you want to successfully cast, why don't you just assume that you're getting Dweller's Below off?  Isn't that less convoluted?  Oh, and Frenzied units are ITP.  So be less dumb.
slxiii:  Don't think of this unit as a "nothing can beat this with a front charge" unit, because that is a flaw in tactics on your part. Think of it as a reasonably strong unit that can be defeated with the most simple tactics/support. Units do not exist in a void where they attack only one other unit at a time.

Gosh, it sure makes me happy to know that reasonably intelligent people do exist out there somewhere.
quinn: Obviously if you throw a lot of resources at it you can beat it. A lot of us think that for the points, it's a great unit. I'd rather have people spending time and energy worrying about this unit than killing the units that I really rely on.

You're a tard.  Why am I going to focus resources on something when there are other units you really rely on more?  Do you think your opponents all fail at target priority?  Or are you going to Jedi mind trick them into attacking your throwaway units?
majorcrash: Not to sure about the math, but I can say that Mauraders with mark of nurgle are about impossible to kill with just shooting. My empire crossbow and handguns, much less archers are barely hiting and by the time I lose the extra -1 for range he's in my face. So far only steamtank and cannons have had much affect. I also tried a horde blcok of swordsman and Then spearmen. Same result. Even if i get the charge thier higher Int spells doom for my troops

What is your insanity about?  Seriously.  For starters, who is talking about Mark of Nurgle?  Mark of Nurgle is by far the weakest mark in the book.  Get lost.

gcsmith: Teclis would be probably the best counter for this unit. for HE anyway. if you manage to chuck 6 dice for flames then its almost garunteed to irresistable cast, and given teclis doubles dnt miscast and he will ignore the 1st double 6 each turn im quite safe.

You use High Magic with Teclis?  Do you enjoy losing miserably?  Try the Lore of Life or Lore of Death, and suck a lot less.  I could think of a way better counter for HE, it's called Lothren Sea Guard.  50 of them will shred the Marauders.  They shoot for 2 turns at the Marauders.  Marauders charge, get shot again.  Then they get 50 attacks in their face that re-roll to hit.  They are dead.  That's much easier than gimping Teclis with a shit Lore.


  1. I love this series. It's like a mini-FNIF that does not raise my blood pressure as high. Plus, I like that you actually highlight the tactics that DO work, otherwise by the end I am so befuddled that I don't remember the right way to do it.

  2. I wish I could say it didn't raise my blood pressure. I have such a low tolerance for... pretty much anything relating to stupidity or incompetence. It always shocks me when people look at a given data set and draw completely incorrect conclusions from it.

  3. That's why I don't ask specific questions, dude. I ask generic, softball questions and I learn to listen to what you say. BTW: I've been getting advice from the biggest clueless idiot this side of Kansas, so I apologize for some of my dumb. I'm getting better, I promise.

    PS: a leg shot would be great=p (MORE BIKES, too)

  4. I have infinite patience when it comes to teaching new people who have the aptitude to learn. I'll spend all day teaching a new person the game and some strategies if they are teachable. It's when people say ridiculously incorrect stuff like "melta weapons are bad" and try to argue the point that I give up.

  5. I just straight out hate willful stupidity, like Nike says...arguing the sky is pink just to be right is so infuriating.