Monday, May 14, 2012

Today in Awful Warseer Tactics Part 20

Hello and welcome to the 20th edition of my ongoing look into the abyss that are web forums for Warhammer. Two types of people post on these forums: complete newbs who are confused and in search of good advice to help them get better and then you have the man-babies who are completely awful at these games but get off on the power trip of being the 'smartest guy on the forum.'  Since they are usually terrible at the game, the advice they give is generally poor.  This series exists to spotlight the horrible answers to innocent questions.  

This particular article is based on a thread I've been monitoring for a while.  Teclis is the boogeyman of Warhammer Fantasy.  No other single model attracts more hate and fear than the High Elf Bad Boy, and with good reason: Teclis is more than capable of single-handedly destroying an unprepared opponent.  I've seen Teclis all by himself wipe out 2/3rds of the opposing army by the end of turn 2.  Scary stuff for a guy who costs under 500 points.  Unfortunately, being under 500 points means that you can play him in 2,000 point games.  This is 25% of your list, but is often worth it.  Unfortunately, a seasoned opponent who knows how to handle it (still tough to do, but definitely doable) will be able to take advantage of the fact that your army is much smaller than his.  If he is able to mitigate Teclis' damage for a turn or two, you can usually win.

So in this thread the OP asks how to beat Teclis with his VC army.  This is tough, because Teclis dropping Purple Suns or Dwellers can kill Undead faster than you can re-raise them.  And Undead are usually slow which means getting to Teclis' magic bunk can be problematic.  Beating Teclis with VC means bringing good units that are capable of getting across the board.  Luckily, VC have no shortage of flying units that can harass Teclis and also harass warmachines in other match ups.  Thus, the answer is as usual, "bring a balanced list with fast/flying units and/or scouts/vanguard units and/or outflanking troops."  This is good advice for all Fantasy players and very applicable here.  Unfortunately, this is not the advice he gets...

Madival: I have an opponent fielding teclis, 40 sword masters in horde with bsb , 20 seaguard and 25 seaguard with noble that makes all the 25 guys attacks magical. I am only worried about teclis as vampire counts. I am fielding a 30 man GG unit banner of barrows , 2x30 zombies, 30 skeletons, 2x5 dire wolves, hemmler, o2 necro with rod of flaming death, 2x5 hex wraiths and a black coach. What should I do ?

This set up is fairly good, you need to get across the board and kill Teclis in hand to hand with your fast units.  Also Hemmler is pretty bad, you need a better magic phase to compete.  But just heed my advice from above.

Look at this pimp, ruining British noobs fun since 8th Edition launched

Icedcrow:  I'm also a fan of dropping every cannonball and mortar shot and sniper shot at him. He's bound to fail a look out sir roll when you use weight of numbers. I'm not sure of your army but if you have access to any of the above, let er rip.

Yeah, because VC have tons of Cannons and mortars.  Goddamn I hate you.  Even if they DID have cannons and mortars you think that him failing a 6++ ward save is the best way to deal with him?  What horrible, horrible advice.

Frankly: Set up a some magic defence, look at all the anti magic items and get a few that either hurt him or shut down a spell or two.

Explain to me what magic defensive items exist that shut down a guy who gets irresistable force on his spells, and is immune to the miscast?  Because I'd love to know.  Do you even play this game or know what Teclis is?

BigbyWolf: One of my clubs has come up with a novel way of dealing with Teclis.

If anyone ends up playing against someone using Teclis, they themselves get a free Teclis to use for the game. We even have a club Teclis model for people to use should the situation arise.

Should the club Teclis already be in use and someone else puts out a Teclis army, they must then give their Teclis to the opposing army, and play the game without Teclis, and the opposing army uses that Teclis as a bonus Teclis.

Any further people trying to use Teclis on the same night are forced to sit in the corner holding up a sign with "I must learn to play tactically..." written on it.

They also aren't allowed any of the club donuts.

Most people tend to stop bringing him unless they have specifically agreed to use him with their prospective opponents the previous week.

Wow.  Let me add: wow.  This is an example of why American players believe that Brits are non-competitive players.  I know that stereotype isn't true, but this... just isn't good.  If all Brits think Americans are Stelek, this guy is what people here think of Brits.  Could you imagine moving to a town where these fucking jokes are the only people you have to play with?  I would be so sad if the only games I could get were against people like this, because I'd have to quit the game.  These are the people who love comped tournaments.  These are also people whose idea of cutting edge tactics is anything other than moving your army forward as quickly as possible.  This guy is officially the king of this thread.

Warplock:  I wouldnt play against him at 2000 points. Ask the opponent to desist.

I wouldn't want to play against you at any point level, just in case you were wondering.

In reply to BigbyWolf...

Graxy: thats possibly the greatest thing I ever heard

Morkash: I fully approve of this

I can't tell who is dumber, the original genius, or the borderline morons who agree with him?

Calnen:  Unless it's an agreed competitive game (conga lines etc included), then a gent just wouldn't take him. The rules for him are clearly not as intended.

More people who understand GW's 'intentions.'  GW did a couple of revisions of the High Elves FAQ since 8th Edition came out, if the rules were not operating as intended, they have had plenty of opportunity to rectify it.  But they didn't.  So even if I agree the unit is powerful, I have to disagree with you about GW's intentions.  

wbarobinson: High elves suck, Teclis is the only thing that makes them playable. Just fly a kitted ghoul king over and kill him. Or vargheists and kill him. Or a vargulf and kill him. Or a terrogheist and kill him.

Congrats on injecting sanity into this thread.  You seem to have a head on your shoulders.  That said, you need to get out of Warseer as quickly as possible before you get contaminated.

With that said, now I am the one who has to get out of this thread, before I'm becoming contaminated.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Concerns?


  1. Humourous, if a little depressing...

  2. That thing about the club not allowing players to field Teclis is really quite sad :/ how can they expect to learn and improve if they refuse to play against stuff that's better than/unfamiliar to them?

    1. You hit the nail on the head. They don't want to learn or improve. Metaphorically, they want to go to the same party and see the same people over and over again for eternity.

      While there definitely are people who aren't interested in competitive environments, I feel like a lot of people use the "I'm not competitive" mantra as a defense mechanism. If you say you're uber competitive and you lose, you feel like a failure. If you are non-competitive and you lose, no loss. It's sad.

  3. Hi, first I'd like to say I'm a big fan of your blog, so when I was reading this I was wondering about the fast units part. I'm a Chaos Dwarf player so I have fast units similar to the ones you suggest for the VC player (hogob wolfriders) and they don't really seem like the could cut through Teclis's body guard or even my buddie's necromancer skeleton bunker. I do have heavy cavalry (Bull Centars) that seem like they could do the job but that doesn't really seem like what you were saying. I normaly would assume that you just refering to the VC list but you implied at least, that it refered to all armies. If it helps I play a warmachine heavy army.

    1. You have a couple of choices. Since they have a 4++ save, warmachining his unit to death before they magic you to death could be hard, but its probably your best bet.

      The ideal situation is to warmachine everything else in his army and get a unit into CC with the magic bunker. But you are going to have to bring a decently powerful unit, because Phoenix Guard and usually a Noble with Greatsword or two can fight. VC have it good because their flying monsters are high enough toughness and wounds that they don't really fear Str 4 PG.