Hey gang. Let's keep the ball rolling with the Specials. In Fantasy, Specials do for you what Elites and Fast attack do for you in 40k. Since 50% of your points can go to Specials, the choices you make in Specials can be what define the feel and flavor of your army. What goodies to Ogres get?
-Specials-
Leadbelchers: Flavor-wise, these guys rule. Big nasty Ogres carrying cannons that they shoot like small arms. Pretty cool. Unfortunately, they aren't so awesome on the table top. The problem is you are paying for normal Ogre toughness and close combat ability, and decent shooting. They are overpriced as a CC unit, and though their shooting is good, it isn't 43 points per model good.
Maneaters: Pirate Ogres! Ummm, weird. They are super bad ass in close combat, since they come stock with an extra attack and Strength 5 over normal Ogres and for a measly two-points you can give the first row (since each model is armed differently) additional hand-weapons. That's five attacks per model in the first row. Insane. And guess what, you can then arm the second row with Great Weapons. 4 attacks base Strength 7. But let's not stop there. Each unit gets to pick two USRs. The best combos I see off the bat are a CC based unit like I've gushed over so far with Stubborn (best USR in the game) and Swiftstride. That is an uber unit. The second coolest thing to do with them is to give them shooty weapons and Scouts and Sniper. Yep, you read that right. You can deploy them near your opponent's magic bunker, and shoot the hell out of their wizards turn one. But all of this awesomeness comes with a really staggering points cost. You have to think long and hard about including one in your list, because they can become a points sink quickly. But they CAN be absolutely devastating to an unprepared opponent. If your opponent sees the Scouts and Sniper shooty unit on your list and doesn't deploy accordingly, he is in for a very rude awakening.
Sabretusks: Eh. When you bring a hunter the unit gets a massive buff in the form of Swiftstride. Without a hunter, they are a low leadership, no armor unit that doesn't have Ogre Charge. They are cheap (for Ogres) but I don't see a need for them outside of a theme list.
Yhetees: Pros: they are fast, and they hit hard, and have decent leadership. Cons: they are expensive, nor armor, and flammable. Many better choices.
Mournfang Cavalry: The heavy shock cavalry unit for Ogres. They are insanely expensive, 70 points gives a 2+ save. Try to kill a unit of multi-wound monstrous cavalry that have 3 wounds each and a 2+ save. D3 impact hits on the charge. Here is how we view this unit: chariots. These are essentially cheaper, but faster (they can march), and harder hitting chariots. That don't suffer the drawbacks of chariots. Ummm yes. You know I'm a sucker for chariots, and these are better. The minimum unit size is 2, so I can easily see people flooding the field with MSU Mournfang cavalry. Treat these like chariots and you'll see their value. But a unit does not exist in isolation, yes they are cheap super chariots: but is that what makes a good Ogre army? We'll see!
Gorgers: 90 points each. Whew. But, guess what: they have two of the best two abilities in the game, Ambushers and Unbreakable. So they get to come in your opponent's backfield out of nowhere. And whatever they charge will either kill them, or die, or be tarpitted. The Unbreakable feature means that they are ideal for charging defensive minded magic bunkers, who will struggle to kill them, and will be tarpitted. Generally speaking, a magic bunker that is stuck in combat means a wizard isn't being useful. As you might have noticed so far, a lot of units in this book are good at attacking magic based strategies. This is a sign that Ogres may be more competitive than previous editions. I'm not saying Gorgers are a great unit, because in many ways they compete in role with Maneaters.
-Summary-
Ogres have some cool Specials for sure. They DO define the army. You can bring lot's of Mournfang cavalry in a chariot-esque swarm attack. You can bring an uber unit of Maneaters that are tailored to nearly any role you can imagine (though I think the two builds I identified are the best ones.) Heck, you could bring like six Gorgers and have your opponent freaking out when he is sandwiched between Ogres in the front and Unbreakable Gorgers attacking from the rear. I'm not going to lie, there is a lot of creative real estate to explore here in list building, and I envy you Ogre players for getting to do it.
I think you're pretty much spot on, with a couple of minor quibbles:
ReplyDeleteSabertusks: Running units of 1 (since they are 1+) is great. Use them like eagles to redirect or nail warmachines. For 21 points, I'll be taking three of them every time.
Yhetees: I think they've got some nice usage. Basically WS 4 until your opponent fails a fear test; then they're WS0, can't attack and are auto-hit in Close Combat. Granted, this isn't going to happen all the time, but my planned build to get around this revolves around Doom and Darkness on a Death Slaughtermaster (level 2 butcher backup with Maw). This probably needs a FAQ answer, so I'm guessing 50/50 we'll see it in the Ogre FAQ. :-D
Mournfangs: Rad unit. I got another game in on friday, four of them took a charge from a TK chariot deathstar and then ground it down over two turns. Amazing.
I've been wanting to try out some Gorgers, but I haven't gotten around to buying them yet. I think when I order Skrag I'll special order like 10 or something. We'll see, but that's a really nasty army as well.
Good review again.
Monstrous infantry only gets a maximum of three supporting attacks, so the Maneater second rank will only be dishing out 3 strength 7 attacks per model... not that they need many more.
ReplyDeleteI'll have to agree to disagree with you on the leadbelchers. I think they are worth every point you pay for them. Sure they aren't armoured very well, but d6 s4 shots per model pretty much always hitting on a 4 or 5 (depending on range)is great! Maybe not so great in a unit of 3, but try fielding them in a unit of 8. Suddenly they start putting out 28 shots on average and are still a lot better in combat than most other armies' missile units.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Sabretusks, being War Beasts, already have Swiftstride. The Hunter gets Swifstride and the unit gets Vanguard when the Hunter joins the unit :)
@ Thalenchar
ReplyDeleteOkay, so 28 shots on average for a unit of eight leadbelchers averages about 9 hits (shooting at long range, or at short range in soft cover or short at skirmishers). Against T3 units, that averages 6 wounds, probably with no armor save.
I'm sorry, but for the nearly 350 pt price tag, I feel like the unit should do more.
Good review Nike, I'm glad to hear your reasoned take on the new Ogres. I read the one some dude did on BoLS and ... well. I should stop doing that. lol
ReplyDeleteSad to hear that Leadbelchers aren't wonderful though. I had heard they were 'worth it'.
Keep it up :)
@ Vilicate:
ReplyDeleteI can't argue with math. However, I don't think that is actually that bad a shooting attack in Fantasy. Maybe it might seem that way in a vacuum, but consider:
Don't DX Xbowmen or HE archers do about the same amount of wounds for the same points? Assuming roughly the same modifiers, although Xbowmen would get an extra -1 for multiple shots, and either unit could get the modifier for moving, which the Ogres do not get. Secondly, S4 and Armour Piercing makes Leadbelchers effective vs armoured targets, which other (non-black powder) missile weapons are not. Thirdly, Leadbelchers are basically as good as 'Bulls' in combat, and very much better than most every other army's missile troops. You also pay points for that. Finally, Leadbelchers have the potential to unleash a veritable storm of shots in one turn. Sure, chances are just as great they'll do very few shots, but it is this potential that will nake your opponent think twice about which unit to deploy opposite the Leadbelchers.
So, that's why I think Leadbelchers are totally worth it. Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinion :)
The issue with leadbelchers is you have a shooting unit that you are paying a lot of points for because they have close combat stat lines. Their close combat ability isn't good enough to make the extra points you pay for it worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when you take them out of a single unit vacuum. The Ogres are an expensive army, and you won't be able to bring everything cool. So you're really going to waste your Specials points on a mediocre shooting unit with mediocre close combat ability? When there are so many homerun choices in the Specials to bring instead? I sure wouldn't.
I feel like both the Mournfangs and Maneaters are the standout choices in the Specials section. Mournfangs have a durability that can't really be matched in the ogre book, and Maneaters let you fill a several gaps that you'd otherwise be missing (scout, poison, accurate shooting) with the addition that they're also very good in CC.
ReplyDeleteI would not call Leadbelchers shooting mediocre as such. I think they have a good supporting missile attack that does have a definite place in the OK army. I've gone into a bit more detail as to why I think so on my blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://thunderstomping.blogspot.com/2011/10/leadbelchers-and-how-they-fit.html
Feel free to check it out and see if I can't convince you of my stance :)