Pedro vs Helbrecht

If you’re like me (a genius who spends his time thinking about trivial things) you clearly understand that Pedro Kantor and Helbrecht are the most powerful Chapter Masters a marine army can pick in terms of buffing power.

Lysander need not apply =(

Since their buffs benefit close combat, it's a given to pair them with assault terminators, though a veteran squad with close combat weapons and plasma pistols is also quite strong consideration.  From a very basic standpoint, Pedro’s +1 attacks benefits models with fewer, but more powerful attacks whereas Helbrechts +1 Strength benefits models who are already going to hit a lot, but might need help wounding.  Also obvious, +1 attack is way more powerful in isolation, but Helbrecht slightly mitigates that by being equipped with better gear and having better CC capability.

The level basic thinking is Pedro = Thunderhammers, Helbrecht = Lightning Claws.  Does this hold up?  Let’s hammer some maths. In order to be points fair we will say that you get 6x LC termies and 5x TH termies.  For the moment we will ignore the capabilities of each character and only look at the killiness of the unit with their buff.

Pedro + 5 TH Termis (all numbers after saves, after damage)

Vs Ork Boyz = 7.5 wounds

Vs MEQ = 6.23 wounds

Vs Rhino = 21 wounds (splat!)

Vs Landraider = 12 Wounds

Pedro + 6 LC Termies

Vs Ork Boyz = 13.5 wounds

Vs MEQ = 8.9 wounds

Vs Rhino = 6.6 wounds

Vs Landraider = 2.75 wounds

Helbrecht + 5 TH Termie

Vs Ork Boyz = 5.4 wounds

Vs MEQ = 4.5 wounds

Vs Rhino = 13.5 wounds (splat)

Vs Landraider = 11 wounds

Helbrecht + 6 LC Termies

Vs Ork Boyz = 14.1 wounds

Vs MEQ = 9.33 wounds

Vs Rhino = 5.4 wounds

Vs Landraider = 4 wounds

So what patterns can we conclude here.  At the basic level, Thunderhammers are obviously lights out vs light vehicles either way.  Lightning Claws eat through infantry.  We all knew that already.  At the second level we can see just how bad ass Land Raiders are.  A unit of Thunderhammer terminators buffed by Pedro or Helbrecht aren’t capable of killing one in a single turn of combat.  That’s tough stuff.

But about the HQ boys themselves.  Pedro makes his unit killier across the board against vehicles, Helbrecht has a slight advantage against infantry.  What I was hoping to see, but didn’t, was that Helbrecht’s +1 strength would give his Lightning Claw termies a huge advantage against vehicles.  Against T7, the roll to wound is the same at Str 4 or Str 5, though.  There was a pretty noticeable advantage against T8, however, since going from 6 to 5 to wound doubles the amount of wounds you inflict.  But really, if you’re charging LC terminators into a Land Raider something bad is happening.  

Now lets look at the killing power of the Characters themselves, since it helps to consider that the character may be able to compensate for his unit’s shortcoming.

Pedro Kantor

Vs Ork Boyz = 3.7 wounds

Vs MEQ = 3.1 wounds

Vs Rhino = 7.4 wounds

Vs Land Raider = 4.4 wounds

High Marshal Helbrecht

Vs Ork Boyz = 3.8 wounds

Vs MEQ = 3.2 wounds

Vs Rhino = 3.2 wounds

Vs Land Raider = 2.6 wounds

This was… not what I was expecting.  My intuition was that 6 attacks at Str 6 that hit on 2s would have enabled Helbrecht to tear through infantry a lot better than Pedro.  But since both re-roll to hit the difference in hits was minor.  The game changer for Pedro was wounding infantry on 2+ vs Helbrecht’s 3+ helped a ton.  It should be said Helbrecht will wound T3 on 2+ as well so he should be a bit deadlier relative to Pedro there.  So while Helbrecht has a slight advantage against infantry the gap is imperceptibly small on the battlefield with a normal game’s same size.  And Pedro is much killier against vehicles.  One thing in Helbrecht’s favor is his combi-melta adds a good bit to his anti-vehicle punch, especially against T7.

What can we conclude?  Anything short of a Land Raider, give me Pedro and Lightning Claws.  Pedro and Lightning Claws will kill a Rhino in one turn, same as TH/SS.  Against infantry the Lightning Claws will murder.  The only offensive advantage of the TH terminator is against T8.  

Looking at the combos, it seems clear to me that Pedro and some Lightning Claw terminators is going to be your killiest combination against all comers.  Hopefully, your shooting can take down the T8 baddies and let the terminators kill the enemy elite infantry or shooting infantry.  Lastly, one thing in the favor of TH termies is the storm shield.  3++ save is better than ever and against enemy elite infantry who are armed with plasma pistols and power axes galore there is a bit to be said for it sacrificing some killing power to sustain some heavy hits.  In 8th you’ll typically eat a unit and then get shot at next turn either way due to fall back, so being able to survive the shooting is helpful.

But yeah, Crimson Fists looking good.

Thoughts?