Showing posts with label Black Templars. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Black Templars. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 4, 2012

Life on Death Row: Black Templar Allies in 6th


Things look bleak for Black Templars these days.  Their current codex is ancient and strictly non-competitive in a tournament setting as the main army.  All the rumors point to the BT getting a White Dwarf codex sometime in 2013, and based on the history of the last few WD codices… let’s just say we might actually prefer to keep our ancient over-costed codex if the alternative is anything like the Sisters of Battle.  Our current codex is a dinosaur on life support, and our future codex has a good chance of being still-born.  Things could be better.



The BT are all but useless as a main army in competitive 6th edition.  Our HQ and Troops are significantly overcosted, and as those are areas that every army needs to compete, it puts a strain out.  So where is the glimmer of hope?  Simply put, as allies.  The BT have some interesting units that can be complimentary as an allied force, and I’ll go over the options here.

HQ:  BT can bring a Terminator captain with a retinue of Tank Hunting 2x Ass-can/cyclone terminators.  When is this useful?  Let’s say you have a good codex that has good options in heavy support and elites, but you still want some more strong and tough anti-tank.  Getting a shooty anti-tank unit out of an HQ slot is rare.  Not many modern armies can bring shooty anti-tank units in HQ so if you are strapped for empty FOC slots, this can really bolster your army

Troops:  As I mentioned before, our troops are stiflingly overpriced.  But we have one attractive option: 20x man crusader squad with krak grenades.  This is a fairly tough to shift blob that is Fearless in assaults and, when a chaplain is attached, will be in your deployment zone immediately if you choose to shoot at them.  This unit is pricey for a Troop choice, but it provide something only Chaos normally has access to: a 20 man MEQ unit with close combat potential.   There are a lot of armies who bring allied CSM just for this type of unit, and depending on the army and their ally options, this might be better.  Or at least legal.

Elites:  5x Terminator squad with 2x heavy weapons and Tank Hunters.  These are almost strictly better than any modern codex’ similar options. 

Tank Hunting venerable dread with TLLC and Missile Launcher.  The ability to glance kill the dread hurts the points investment you take in Venerable.   However, your guns are 48” range and hit really hard.  There are not too many better anti-heavy tank units in the game.  I could easily see this incorporated into a GK list as the “fourth” psyfleman.  Or in a C:SM Master of the Forge list as the “sixth” rifleman. 

Heavy Support:  Power of the Machine Spirit Vindicator.  Our FAQ weakened this option by changing PotMS to match the new codices.  However, other books can’t take PotMS on their Vindis, so this is a unique option.  Many SM lists these days are bringing Vindis, and some other armies that can’t wish they could.  This is the option to take an upgraded Vindi.  I would definitely consider this one in any list that is considering bringing a Vindi.

That’s about it.  Like I said, this codex is on life support/death row; so us remaining Black Templar players have to do the best with what good options are left.


Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Saturday, June 30, 2012

Why I Am Not Blogging About 6th Today...

...too busy painting.  Going to try to get my 6th Edition Templars painted up to the (admittedly mediocre) standard of my Grey Knights.  Since I intend for those two armies to share Rhinos/Dreads/Razorbacks I want them to have matching color schemes.  Plus there are those times where I will feel like doing some Vulkan Vanilla lists and the uniform paint scheme will be an asset.

So I have applied the Boltgun Metal basecoat to my entire super secret 6th edition BT list and the next step is black wash, follow by mithral and skull white highlights, and then blue/red energy effects.  I'm guessing the painting will be done by next weekend, and then hopefully basing shortly thereafter.  Who knows, if they are ready you may see them at NOVA.  

If you want to hear my initial thoughts head over to Laeroth's blog where a good discussion of Templar related fun is happening.

Not bad for 5 hours of work



Monday, June 25, 2012

Black Templars and 6th Edition Rumors Part 2


I’ve kept an intentionally low profile on the 6th Edition speculation, because previously I was awfully pessimistic.  I would rate my current outlook on competitive 6th Edition as “Very Cautiously Optimistic.”

Without going into a whole ordeal, I have a mere three gripes with everything I have heard.  However, what my gripes lack in plurality they gain individual potential to ruin the game. 

First, I think allies have the potential to totally break the game.  If the rules are handled properly it could be done balanced; but it’s far more likely that allies will either be out of control, or never worth using.  I don’t know yet exactly what the restrictions will be, but I can’t think of many ways that they would be GOOD for tournament play.  While they may not harm it, they certainly can’t help it.  Even if the rules for allies prevent all broken combos, except one, that one is enough to spoil the whole thing. 

Second, I think buying fortifications are super dumb.  Look at the all the drama around the blogosphere surrounding NOVA’s terrain and how it matches up with individuals’ conceptions of how 40k terrain should be.  Terrain is, clearly, a very touchy issue and incredibly difficult to balance.  So any rule that lets a player manipulate or place his own terrain is bound to create all kinds of balance issues.  Again, fortifications might be balanced for 90% of the lists that would take them, but the 10% that are wildly imbalanced are enough to ruin a tournament.

Third, one of the deployments is short table edges.  This is so scary, because it puts certain armies at an immediate disadvantage while greatly benefitting others.  Of the three issues, I feel this is the easiest to mitigate, especially since most tournaments use long edge deployments for each scenario anyway regardless of the alternatives.

In summation, the things I listed have the potential to be OK if handled absolutely perfectly, but if handled wrong could be a disaster.  I highly doubt the risk is worth the reward, but the allies and fortifications rules seem like something that the sales wing of the company forced the design portion of the company to include.  Top down game design from non-designers is usually bad.  And I’ll leave it at that with my fingers crossed.

On a positive note…

Many of the rumors I thought would make Templars awesome are confirmed.  Er, as confirmed as they could be at this juncture.

Re-rolling ur misses, and sometimes ur wounds
Let’s list the things that are stronger in 6th that Templars have the best of already…

1.  Terminators.  Ours are the same price as everyone else’s, shoot at vehicles better, and fight in close combat better than everyone else’s.  Oh yeah, power weapons are “confirmed” to be AP3 last I heard.  Game on.

2.  Skimmers.  Our Typhoon speeders are cheaper than everyone else.  And now they can get a cover save.  This isn’t a huge upgrade, but if I’m reading correctly they can go flat out, get a cover save, and shoot their weapons at BS1.  Fine by me.  Two frag missiles at BS1 can still do some decent damage to infantry.  This is just a strike upgrade.

3.  Preferred Enemy.  The re-roll of 1’s to wound is great, since 1’s are the only thing Thunderhammers don’t wound on.  Since vehicles have weapon skill now, I also assume this works on vehicles, though I wouldn’t be shocked if they word it to say “non-vehicle” units or something to that effect.

4.  Land Raiders.  4 Hull Points and the new vehicle damage chart means that the only thing killing them quickly is a lot of melta.  This means that a Crusader will likely get to deliver it’s payload, and a godhammer can shoot at range all day.  What long range weapons will someone bring that can reliably pop a Land Raider now?  It is pretty darn hard for a Lascannon to do it since glances don’t mean much to a Land Raider anymore.  I don’t know if that will be enough to get people to bring Godhammers, but it might.

What are my initial thoughts?  Tough to say.  All the things, except the Typhoons, that I mentioned are not cheap.  You could write a list with terminators and land raiders that is really bad.  Too many shiny toys.  But in a tournament like NOVA, we’ve seen kp/vp denial lists do rather well. 

On the other hand, I could also envision a list with three troops sitting in dedicated transport Land Raiders just holding objectives all day with Terminators providing shooting and counter charge duties.  It would probably not be the ideal way to do a BT list in 6th, but we have seen that 2 or 3 nearly indestructible troop choices can be as good as 6 cheap ones.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Black Templars, 6th Edition, and Close Combat

I've tried to stay away from everything coming out of the rumor mill in regards to 6th Edition, but I think some of the recent stuff is solid enough that it's worth speculating on.  Two things I've read recently seemed to scream out "Black Templars" to me, and that's a good thing.  Good Black Templar news has been pretty slim lately after the codex rumors were proven to be fake.

Fingers crossed, but we're coming back!
First, AP is a thing in close combat so we hear, and we also hear that power weapons are AP3.  Terminators rejoice!  This is a huge, huge deal.  In most armies, the dedicated close combat units are armed with power weapons.  These units are no longer scary to terminators.  Thus, the tier system for close combat is much different.

Close Combat Tiers 5th Edition:

1.  Storm Shield Terminators
2.  Rending infantry units with lot's of attacks
3.  Power weapon armed elite infantry of various sorts
4.  Non-dedicated units that can still beat normal troops (shooty terminators)

Now it's safe to assuming that Rending is going to be AP3 which would give it parity with power weapons.  I could be totally wrong, and it could be AP2, but it would seem odd to me for Rending attacks to be superior to power weapons.  Time will tell.

Close combat tiers 6th Edition

1.  Storm Shield Terminators
2.  Power fist armed 2+ infantry (shooty terminators, mega-nobz)
3.  Lightning Claw Terminators (these are usable again because while they still lose to SS terminators, they beat power weapon and rending infantry now, where they used to lose to.)
4.  Shooty terminators
5.  Renders
6.  Power weapon armed infantry (these guys dropped way down the ladder.  Sure they can take out basic troops with ease, but so can everything above them on the list.  And they lose horribly to everything above them on the list.  In a world full of Paladins (who become insanely powerful in close combat now to everything except SS terminators) these things are practically unusable.)

These changes put BT in a pretty good position, if true.  While Preferred Enemy is likely catching a nerf, our SS terminators are likely superior to anybody else's except Vulkan.  Our Lightning Claws terminators are also superior to most others' with the ability to get Furious Charge; so if they turn out to be a usable unit, they could see play.  The problem is it would be hard to think of a situation where you'd want the LC guys when you have the choice, maybe against horde armies, but that's about it.

Also, since our shooty terminators are the best in the business.  Yes, hi we get 2 Cyclone Launchers, Tank Hunters (which will do something good in 6th we can assume) and we no longer have to fear getting assaulted by power weapon armed infantry.  This puts BT in a very good place.  Our shooty terminators literally only fear TH/SS terminators, which is something they already feared.  Since fearing TH/SS terminators is nothing new, and BT players still usually took 2+ squads of the shooty terminators I don't see why you would take fewer now.  In fact, an argument could be made to bring a 3rd squad over the usual heavy support choice of Predators/Vindicators that people bring.  Really, the only thing that could slow it down is if Tank Hunters is useless.  If it remains the same, it will be a no brainer to load up on these guys.  If it comes lame, we will have to re-evaluate.  But even without Tank Hunters, 2 units of these are still one of the best things a BT list could be doing.

Moving along.

The next 'rumor' is a bit more speculative.  Stelek has been stating that Land Raiders will be competitive in 6th Edition.  What will the change be?  He hasn't said specifics, but the reason why they are unplayable now is that they die to cheap crap melta units.  So we can assume that anything which makes them good again means that either melta gets some kind of a nerf, or AV14 gets some kind of a buff.  No real need to speculate.  But let's assume that Land Raiders are competitive again.  While I take that with a grain of salt, Stelek has been known to be not talking about of his ass about upcoming releases.  

So who has the best Land Raiders?  That'd be Black Templars.  Our Land Raiders don't die to Lances, and if AV14 is somehow melta-resistant, that means our Land Raiders don't die to very much at all.  This is good for BT, obviously.  Remember the new close combat tier list I made up there?  Our dedicated CC units are better than almost everybody else's.  And now our delivery mechanism is better than everybody else's.  This could be very good.  Since our Heavy Support section has, since our Typhoon Land Speeders got buffed, been the weak link in our FoC we have the points to spend on a Land Raider.  The hard part will be deciding between CC terminators in a Land Raider or 3 units of Shooty Terminators.  

The answer, I suspect, will come down to what they do with Tank Hunters and Preferred Enemy.  I haven't heard anything about those abilities, so it's hard to speculate further.  One thing I will say, if AV14 is hard to kill, and Kill Points stick around, that could be something to consider.  BT can do a kill point denial list with 5 Land Raiders very easily.  If the switch is made back to VP, there will be a lot to figure out.

For the first time in a long time, I'm excited to be a BT player.

Thoughts, comments, questions?

Monday, March 5, 2012

My Current Lists: Black Templars 2,000

I realized today that it's been a while since I discussed what my current lists actually look like, and I also realized I promised to do so at some point in the hazy past.  First up: my favorite 40k army, the Black Templars.  Templars as a shooty army have some well discussed advantages and I think you all know about them by now.  So without further adieu, here is what I'm currently running in NOVA-style tournaments (which are the only style tournaments really worth playing in)...

Vow to hate on dem witches
HQ-
Emperor's Champion
-Abhor
=110

[Typical choice, nothing really special.  Sits with a Terminator squad giving LD10.]

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Typhoon
=70

Land Speeder Typhoon
=70

Land Speeder Typhoon
=70

[6 missiles and 3 Heavy Bolters a turn is a decent amount of firepower for 210 points.  Finding value.]

Elites
Terminator Sword Brethren Squad
-2x Cyclone Launchers
-Tank Hunters
=265


Terminator Sword Brethren Squad
-2x Cyclone Launchers
-Tank Hunters
=265

[These guys need no explanation, they are the potatoes and the meat.]

Troops
5x Initiates
-Meltagun
-Multimelta
-Rhino
=150


5x Initiates
-Meltagun
-Multimelta
-Rhino
=150


5x Initiates
-Meltagun
-Multimelta
-Rhino
=150


5x Initiates
-Meltagun
-Multimelta
-Rhino
=150

5x Initiates
-Missile Launcher
-Plasma Gun
-Rhino
=146


5x Initiates
-Missile Launcher
-Plasma Gun
-Rhino
=146

[Six troop choices.  I see far too many Templar lists skimping on troops to buy more Land Speeders or Terminators.  I also see lots of Templar lists spending a lot on troops, but the points are going to stupid things like POTMS Razorbacks.  I brought six cheap troop choices, four melta bunkers for the midfield, and two to sit back and shoot at a distance.  With crappy troop choices you can be tempted to underinvest, but at a NOVA tournament that will cost you eventually.  But at the same time, with crappy choices you do not want to over-invest by buying bling to make them try to be a match for fully kitted out Grey Hunters or something.  Bring a lot of them, but keep them simple.]

Heavy Support
Predator Destructor
-Lascannon Sponsons
=125









Predator Destructor
-Lascannon Sponsons
=125

[In a list with 6 Rhinos and 3 Land Speeders, some AV13 to hide behind is always welcome.  Plus for the points, these throw out some strong firepower.]

Total: 1,992

There you go.  Shoot until they're dead.  Any questions or comments or suggestions on this one?

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

40K Theory: Climate Change


What follows is a theory that's been kicking around in my brain for a while, maybe it's valid, maybe not.  But it's the start to the conversation...

It isn't the BT that have changed (except the FAQ) it's everyone else

There is nothing in WH40K that is any where close a Magic the Gathering style metagame which shifts week to week or even day to day.  Change in 40k is glacially slow, partly as a result of the incredibly slow release schedule of new codices, but also because of the time needed to model and paint new units.  If changing your tournament list (which usually must be painted and based to a non-embarrassing standard) was as easy as sliding two new cards into a sleeve, 40K might see the glacial changes accelerate somewhat.

So there is no metagame, most people accept that now and we can move on.  There might not be a metagame, but there is an environment.  Just because you can’t tailor your list to attack a perceived hole in the meta doesn’t mean you don’t consider what other people will (or can) bring as important.  There IS a tournament environment. 

And it revolves, for the most part, around Space Wolves.  Essentially, the units you bring- or don’t bring- to tournaments these days are in a very large part dictated by what Space Wolves can and do bring.  Not to say that we tailor our lists to beat Space Wolves, but the simple fact is that certain strategies are not viable for a tournament list because they are weak to Space Wolves.  Some of these things would also have been invalidated by Blood Angels, IG, or Grey Knights eventually had Space Wolves not been printed, but Space Wolves came first and the story ended there. 

Don’t believe me?  Let’s take a trip back in time to Summer 2009, on the eve of the release of Codex: Space Wolves.  What are the top lists winning tournaments back then?

Nob Bikers.  Dual Lash Chaos.  Eldar Jetlock Councils.  Nidzilla. 

All of these strategies are, for the most part, completely stopped in their tracks by a balanced Space Wolves list.  Nidzilla was stopped by both Space Wolves AND their new codex, but I digress.

Let’s talk 3+ saves.  The best army, at the time, was Chaos Marines.  Vanilla marines had Vulkan and Pedro and TH/SS stuff, but it was considered decidedly 2nd tier at the time.  A lot of the most efficient units (dakka preds, typhoons, rifleman dreads) were either not ‘discovered’ or not yet popular.  The best close combat 3+ army you could bring were Black Templars.  At the time, a 10 man Crusader Squad with AAC was the best close combat troop choice in the game.  The only basic troop choice they couldn’t beat in CC were Plague Marines and Genestealers, everything else they filleted in close combat.

Space Wolves ended the BT close combat reign by introducing a Troop choice that was cheaper, better equipped, and better in close combat.  Blood Angels just further cemented it.  Once BT could no longer win close combats against a significant portion of the tournament lists, close combat was no longer a viable strategy.

While my example is BT specific (since that is most of my experience) this scenario was repeated with every 4th Edition codex in some way.  Chaos Marines got owned by Rune Priests, and Lash Princes got owned by Long Fangs.  Nob Bikers owned by Thunderwolves and Long Fangs; basic Boyz are stopped by basic Grey Hunters.  Jetlock Councils shut down by Rune Priests.  On and on. 

Almost all of the late 4th and early 5th Edition tournament lists were abruptly discarded when SW hit the scene.  The codices that were released after the SW codex not only reinforced this by producing similar threats as the Wolves (BA Assault Squads, GK Psyflemen) but also by having their own strengths occupy different design space from the Wolves.  The IG and GK are both powerful armies, but they would fail if they try to out-SW the SW.  They occupy their own niche, mostly because the Space Wolves have their niche carved out so definitively.  If you took away the SW and BA codices, GK would be the best close combat army in the game.  Add those codices into the mix and a GK close combat army isn’t even considered nearly viable.

Even if you agree with my analysis you’re probably asking yourself, ‘what practical lesson am I supposed to draw from this?’ 

Properly identify your niche.  Regardless of your codex, if you try to occupy the same battlefield space as Space Wolves (centered around aggressive close combat capable troops) you will probably lose since they will trump your plan.  So you have to identify the space where your codex thrives, and engineer your list around that gameplan.  Note that this isn’t “figure out what you do that is unique” since I already attempted to debunk that.  This differs because we aren’t talking about quirky units or special rules.  We are talking about general battlefield roles.  It is rather easy to identify the battlefield role for a good IG army, and once you have that space identified, picking the individual units becomes easier.  To stick to my BT, I’ve indentified that the battlefield role of aggressive close combat troops is already occupied by several superior codices, so my choices are either find a different space to play them, or bring the same CC based list from 2009 and lose regularly. 

I’ll choose to adapt to the changed climate.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Friday, January 6, 2012

40k: Black Templar Rumors and Analysis

A fresh new batch of Black Templars rumors are circling the web, and they seem a bit more specific than the last round, so it’s worth going through them and analyzing, I think.  Let’s see what we got…



“Relic Dreadnoughts.”  “Chaplain Dreadnoughts.”

My guess would be that these things are one in the same.  Or maybe the relic dread is a Reclusiarch type upgrade to the basic Chaplain that creates some kind of Litanies of Hate Bubble for the army.  Would be a cool replacement for the Preferred Enemy we are sure to be losing, if not an overly competitive option.

“Land Raider spam army.”

The only way I can see this happening is if they get a deep discount on Land Raiders for Crusader Squads AND there is something like Blessed Hull/Ceramite Plating standard.  No one (in 5th Edition) is going to spend 250 points on a Troop transport that gets blown up at the first sight of an IG trooper with a meltagun.

“Named Emperor’s Champion.”

Same rumor as last time.  Hopefully he has some useful army-wide special rule, because spending more points for a more killy CC character is more or less useless.

“11 point Initiates, 6 point Neophytes.”

Now this is exciting, and certainly supports the army concept they seem to want.  What would the drawback be to justify a deep points decrease?  My guess, and this is purely speculation, would be replacing And They Shall Know No Fear with Righteous Zeal/Rage, and base leadership 7 stat.  That would be interesting.

“Named character on bike with eternal warrior.”

The idea of a lance wielding grail knight type character is cool, and I already have the model built.  Though at this point the idea of super killy close combat characters that don’t have any army-wide buffs frankly bores me.

“Land Raiders that get another turn to live after they are blown up.”

This is a good idea to make them useful as assault terminator transports, but probably not going to be cut it to make them useful for Crusader transports.

“Helbrect makes Sword Brethren scoring/troops.”

This could be awesome or garbage.  The parry rule from the last rumors didn’t make me explode with excitement, though.

“Assault ramp Rhinos.”

This is the wish list of every Templar player, and if true means that you won’t be seeing Land Raiders being spammed unless 6th Edition makes light mech crap.  If we could assault out of Rhinos now BT would be the best assaulty marine army in the game, so something makes me think either this isn’t true or 6th edition will make Rhinos less desirable.

The rumors are starting to actually make me look forward to the new book moreso than fearing it and losing the good stuff we have currently.  The elephant in the room though, is 6th Edition, which could change the game significantly enough to make a rumor that appears awesome in 5th Edition to be a non-factor, or even a drawback.

Tuesday, December 6, 2011

40k: Black Templar Rumors and Rumblings


Some Templar rumors have been floating around, and I felt that as a well known Black Templar blogger, giving my thoughts on them would be marginally appropriate.  So here goes, my thoughts following each item in orange.

Vow to do something good in 6th Edition
-          Phil Kelly is writing the Codex.

This could be a good thing (IG) or a bad thing (Tyranids).  Time will tell.   This WILL be a good thing.

-          More emphasis on the horde aspect of the army with lots of large units of Initiates and Neophytes.

If this is true, it’s an abject failure in the making, unless they make the units insanely cheap, and give them really good anti-tank weapons, like 4 meltaguns per 20 or something.  Unless 6th Edition is radically different, the game is about maneuver and killing light mech.  Hordes of power armor with one special weapon do neither.

-          Emperors Champion is more in line with the company champion of the Grey Knights but is still 2 wounds. Gains preferred enemy against independent characters and monstrous creatures.

I take it that means we won’t be getting a preferred enemy vow, if this is true.  That will be sad.  We don’t have counter attack, or likely Furious Charge (since BA got that) so I’m not sure what useful USR the Templars will get to make them CC beasts.  If the answer is “you get cheaper dudes and more dudes = more attacks” I’ll be bummed.  More attacks are good, but efficient units are better.

-          Emperors Champion is more in line with the company champion of the Grey Knights but is still 2 wounds. Gains preferred enemy against independent characters and monstrous creatures.

Oh boy, I can’t wait to have a 20 man unit that completely fails when one Neophyte dies.  That will make my huge points investment useful.  Since when has rage been used on a competitive unit?

-          All the current special characters (ie: Helbrect and Grimaldius) will remain. Also I had heard of an mention of a special character who is like the greatest of all of the Emperor's Champions and the greatest warrior in the Black Templars. I had heard mention of a bike mounted special character with a lance like weapon but I cannot confirm this yet. "

The old special characters were boring, so them coming back is whatever.  Hopefully there is a reason to take them (hint: Helbrect makes Sword Brethren into Troops would be good).  The new special characters are no brainers.  The “epic” EC is an obvious idea, and the mounted “Questing Knight” character is also a good idea.  Hopefully their rules make them useable. 

-Sword Brethren are to get a special rule where when they are assaulted the enemy unit has to re-roll all* successful hits, at the expense of 1 attack. It's called "parry".

This doesn’t excite me much.  Genestealers and Incubi will still kill you.  Everything else you should be beating up.

-Land Raiders, when suffering a 5 or 6 on the damage chart* (so "wrecked" or "destroyed") gets one more turn where it rampage, think along the lines of the machine spirit going bezerk.

Better than nothing, but I’d prefer Blessed Hull that stops the melta bonus.

-No horses as far as I am aware, bikes would be the direction (if any at all) for riding knights.

Unless they reinvent the fluff (and I wouldn’t be against it if they did) the BT don’t have any bike “Questing Knight” uber unit.  Multi-wound Sword Brethren on bikes would be pretty fun.

That’s it for now.  Some of this stuff has me worried, but some of it has definite potential.  This codex can’t come soon enough to remove the bad taste of Necrons from my mouth.

Friday, September 9, 2011

40k: Outside the Box Black Templars 2k

Hey all. I've been thinking about Black Templars at 2k. The standard gunline list is OK, but has problems. It's basically an average Space Marine shooty list: Rhinos with melta, Typhoons, Predators etc. Instead of Riflemen Dreads it brings shooty terminators. Yadda yadda. So I want to play Templars at 2k competitively, but I don't see that list as being special enough to have game against big dogs. So I figured, why not just start from scratch and see what I can come up with? The following list probably isn't that great, but it's definitely different and maybe with some community input it may have legs. So calling all Templar players, and anyone else who might want to input, lemme know. 



Hybrid Templars - 2,000pts 

Champ Abhor -110 

4x5 Initiates 
-Meltagun
-Multi-melta 
-Rhino =600 

2x5 Initiates 
-Missile Launcher 
-Plasmagun
-Rhino =292 

Attack Bike 
-Multimelta 
=65 

Attack Bike 
-Multimelta 
=65

Attack Bike 
-Multimelta 
=65 

3x5 Terminators 
-2x Cyclone Missile Launchers 
-Tank Hunters 
=795 

=1,992

So it has some interesting things that you need to do to win NOVA style games.  6 mobile troops units, 4 of them are double meltas, 2 backfield objective sitters with longer range firepower.  The Attack Bikes add more mobile melta.  I might prefer to have Speeders here, but the points don't work.  The 3 units of terminators are like Long Fangs, but harder to kill and shoot harder.  They should, since they cost a lot more.  Plus, they munch anything that isn't a dedicated CC unit.

Thoughts?

Wednesday, August 3, 2011

2011 'Ard Boyz Preliminary List

Alright.  I've settled on a list, and it's fully modeled and ready for action.  It's just about as efficient as you can get for Black Templars.  Let me know what you think.

Emperor's Champion, Abhoring Witches since the 90's.

Emperor's Champion
-Abhor The Witch
=110

5x Terminators
-2x Cyclone Missile Launchers
-Tank Hunters
=265

5x Terminators
-2x Cyclone Missile Launchers
-Tank Hunters
=265

Dreadnaught
-Lascannon
-Missile Launcher
-Venerable
-Tank Hunter
=165

2x Landspeeder
-Typhoon
=140

2x Landspeeder
-Typhoon
=140

1x Landspeeder
-Typhoon
=70

4x5 Crusader Squad
-Meltagun
-Multi-melta
-Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke
=632

2x5 Crusader Squad
-Lascannon
-Plasmagun
-Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke
=318

Predator Destructor
-Lascannon sponsons
-Searchlights
-Smoke
=129

Predator Destructor
-Lascannon sponsons
-Searchlights
-Smoke
=129

Predator Destructor
-Lascannon sponsons
-Searchlights
-Smoke
=129

Total:  2,492

Thoughts?

Saturday, July 30, 2011

WTF 'Ard Boyz

With all the NOVA prep stuff around the net and in my brain, it was easy to miss the fact that 'Ard Boyz is coming up next weekend.  I'm not planning on attending the semi finals even if I qualify for it, so I am putting much less pressure on myself.  Anyway, I realized that the list I want to play I don't even have all the models together for so I've been making progress today.  These definitely aren't modeled or painted up to my normal standards, but I suspect they will be Golden Daemon compared to what other people bring to 'Ard Boyz.  Sad.

Anyway, here is my WIP Templars.  Not pictures are Rhinos and Razors since my GK are current using their rides.  I'm guessing the GK will lend them the vehicles for next weekend, though...


Nothing puts me in the mood to model/paint like a lazy Saturday with baseball on TV...

Tuesday, June 21, 2011

40k-metric: Laeroth's Black Templars

Marshal Laeroth over at Implausible Nature wanted me to breakdown his mech Templar list that he intends to bring to NOVA this year.  I very much respect the work he does on his blog and on Bolter and Chainsword for the BT community, and I am very sure that his is one of the best BT lists out there.

Here is the list:

HQ:
* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch." [110]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons and Searchlights. [192]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons and Searchlights. [192]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons and Searchlights. [192]
* Crusader Squad: 5 Initiates w/ 3 Bolters, 1 Plasmagun & 1 Lascannon. Mounted in a Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannons and Searchlights. [192]

Fast Attack:
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]

Heavy Support:
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side-Sponsons, and Searchlights. [126]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side-Sponsons, and Searchlights. [126]
* Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Side-Sponsons, and Searchlights. [126]

Total Points: [1996] 


Before I did the breakdown, I asked him what his thoughts on his own list was.  I wanted to know from his playtesting experience where he felt the list was strong and where he was nervous about its weakness.  My hope was that his real world impressions would somewhat mirror the scores the list generated.  Because, you know, that is the point of the exercise.  His response was...


Well, traditionally my problem area is killing hordes of infantry.  Doesn't matter whether its in combat or in the shooting phase.  I do have the tools to get it done, but it relies on them getting to mid-range where my bolters come into play (which is a dangerous proposition against some horde armies).

I don't believe that I have any problems killing MEQ in the shooting phase, with the huge numbers of AP2/AP3 weapons at my disposal.  And a vast majority of those cause instant death. 


Unfortunately, that comes with a huge disadvantage in CC-ability.  Traditionally, my dual-CML terminators have acted as my CC unit and they have done well in that role, provided it wasn't against dedicated CC-units.  I've found that they are even effective against such units as TWC, provided the unit isn't jam packed with power weapons.  They also are my primary bubblewrap.  But I also have my EC for that duty.

My AV14 killing potential is probably a bit lower as well, since I don't have any melta weapons in the list.  However, in my games, I've found that I simply have too many Str 9 weapons for a Land Raider to handle and I have almost always managed to stop them from getting to me, whether by glancing or by straight up destroying them.  But if I don't, then its damage control as I can't stop them once they hit my lines.  Fortunately, there are other modes of preventing them from getting there such as movement blocking, speed bumps, etc.  And, as you mentioned, the top tables will very likely not feature lists with Land Raiders.

So to sum up, he feels his anti-infantry is adequate, his CC is a definite weakness, his anti-light mech is very strong, and he is slightly vulnerable to heavy armor.  Many of his games come down to whether he is able to destroy the transports of dedicated CC units before they get to him.  As that goes, the game goes.

So what do the scores say?


LaerothDMSDMCCDRPGDLRPGNotes
EC0.112.250.000.00Abhor
5 Terminators3.345.758.892.132 CML Tank Hunters
5 Terminators3.345.758.892.132 CML Tank Hunters
5 Crusaders2.330.834.360.52Las/Plas, Bolters
5 Crusaders2.330.834.360.52Las/Plas, Bolters
5 Crusaders2.330.834.360.52Las/Plas, Bolters
5 Crusaders2.330.834.360.52Las/Plas, Bolters
Razor0.750.002.910.71TLLC
Razor0.750.002.910.71TLLC
Razor0.750.002.910.71TLLC
Razor0.750.002.910.71TLLC
3 Predators4.520.0019.673.12AutoLas
3 Typhoons4.710.0010.000.003 CML 3 HB
Totals:29.8717.0776.5112.30

The scores pretty much confirm exactly how he says the army performs on the tabletop.  Which is what we want, since we want to be able to look at the scores of a list and predict how it will work compared to similar lists.

His anti-infantry shooting matches up very well compared to the winning NOVA lists from last year.  Why?  In addition to a lot of AP1/2/3 in general, he eshews melta and plays plasma.   Double-tapped plasma is very strong, especially against the dedicated CC units he fears the most.

His close combat is definitely a weakness.  But after looking at Mark Ferrik's 4-0 BA list from last year's NOVA, it seems high enough to be competitive... assuming the shooty is there, which is it.

His anti-light mech is very strong.  Again comparable to Mark Ferrik's list.  And unlike Ferrik, his numbers are mostly derived from 48" weaponry, rather than 6".  That difference means a ton, especially when your CC ability is what it is.  One statistical note that I thought was interesting that discovered while doing this: a double tapped Plasma Gun has the exact same chance to penetrate AV11 as does a lascannon.  The difference is 36" of range.

Laeroth is rightly worried about his inability to kill Land Raiders.  His scores are fairly low.  But Tony won the event with a score of below 20, and while it's fair to say that over 8 rounds of play he will surely run into some AV14, the chances of him running into a triple raider/triple monolith list are slight.  Incidentally, since most of his anti-14 is Str9 based rather than melta, he is actually better positioned to kill Monoliths than lists that derive their score from melta.  Food for thought.

My thoughts:  The list has definite strengths and weaknesses, however, unlike Mark Ferrik's Blood Angels, Laeroth's strengths do a good job of covering up his weaknesses.  The lists are very similar, and I would suggest that this BT list has every chance to do as well as Mark's BA list did last year.