This
series might come off badly. The Dark
Elves are undeniably one of the most competitive books in Fantasy and
transitioned very well to 8th Edition. So complaining about the bad units might seem
to some folks like a 40k player complaining about the crappy Grey Knights
units.
Fair
enough.
That
said, some of the Dark Elves bad units have exceptionally cool models or
flavor. It is hard to describe how badly
players want Executioners to be playable models. They are so cool that people jump through
insane hoops just to turn them into a mediocre unit on the tabletop while
gimping the rest of their army in the first place. People are willing to ignore reality in order
to maintain a false hope. Don’t believe
me? How do you think organized religion
rakes in so much cash?
Note
I am not a game designer, so I can’t argue that the proposed changes are
perfectly balanced, but I’ll do my best.
If something seems amiss, let me know in the comments.
First
up, Executioners.
How can you not want to play models this cool? |
Why they are bad
They
are the worst imaginable version of High Elf Swordmasters. For 12 points a piece, they are strength 6
with killing blow and hatred. Sounds
great! But they are toughness 3 with 5+
armor and Always Strike Last. Sounds
fucking awful! The Swordmasters get uber
strikers first, which by eliminates the strikes last, and also gives them
Hatred. Killing Blow, unfortunately, is
irrelevant when you are Strength 6.
Nothing that can be killed with Killing Blow is going survive your hits
anyway, so it’s a useless ability. Don’t
yell at me, I know that mathhammer-wise, it combos well with Hatred to result
in a lot of extra kills. Irrelevant.
The
main reason why they are bad boils down to simply this: they are squishy elves
who strike last. Very lame. The only way to make up for the fact that
they die before they get to strike is to buy more of them. That is what my friends in finance call
“throwing good money after bad.” When
you have a bad hand, you don’t double down on it, especially when your opponent
knows you have a bad hand and will call your bluff. Just dumb.
Design Philosophy
So
how do you fix them without making them ridiculous like Swordmasters? Good question. Allowing them to take 35 point banners so they
can take the ASF banner is the most frequent suggestion. But that’s dumb, because you shouldn’t have
to buy a specific magic banner in order to make your unit do the basic task
that it was designed to do. That would be pretty poor game design,
and I’ll immediately dismiss it.
Another
limit to set is that they can’t be better than Swordmasters. If our goal is to fix them, I’m not going to
‘fix’ them in a way that makes them better or equal to some other broken unit.
The
last limit is that I can’t make them better than Blackguard. Blackguard are the best infantry unit in the
army book on the table top and from a fluff perspective, they ought to be. So if I make a unit that immediately
outclasses them, why would anyone bring Blackguard outside of some theme
list?
Fixing Them
Har
Ganeth Executioners 17 points per model
Unit
Size
5-20
Equipment
Heavy
Armor
Draich
(counts as a great weapon)
Special
Rules
Eternal
Hatred
Khainite
Cold-blooded
Killers
Cold-blooded
Killers: Executioners don’t slowly torture their
victims like most Dark Elves; they are trained to kill exerting the minimum
necessary effort, ideally with a single blow.
A unit of Executioners must decide at the beginning of each round of
combat between the following two options: Always Strike Last but gain Killing
Blow, or to strike at their normal initiative.
Rationale
I
limited their unit size to prevent people from making hordes. Being able to attack with a third rank is a
little too good when you are I5 and Str6.
I wanted to limit the amount of potential casualties they could inflict
in a single round of combat to a maximum of 20, assuming they rolled perfectly.
I
upgraded their points cost, since they did receive a power boost in order to
keep Blackguard competitive. The changes
overall fully distinguish the roles for each unit. Executioners are designed to put out a small
number of accurate high strength attacks.
They are best at cutting down enemy heavy infantry. Blackguard are designed to output tons of
medium strength accurate attacks to mow down medium and light infantry. Now their roles are more distinguished.
Additionally, I kept them much less powerful than Swordmasters. You might argue that they are now overpowered. Compare them with Chaos Warriors armed with Halberds and Mark of Khorne. They are probably a little worse overall than Khorne Warriors for about the same amount of points, which is fair since Chaos Warriors are supposed to be around the power level of other armies’ elite infantry.
Additionally, I kept them much less powerful than Swordmasters. You might argue that they are now overpowered. Compare them with Chaos Warriors armed with Halberds and Mark of Khorne. They are probably a little worse overall than Khorne Warriors for about the same amount of points, which is fair since Chaos Warriors are supposed to be around the power level of other armies’ elite infantry.
Thoughts? Comments?
Questions?
Like the article, except for the snide jab at people who have faith.
ReplyDeleteBeing squishy mans with great weapons, are Empire Greatswords any good? They've got a 4+ save which is something, and Stubborn for them and their Detachments seems useful.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete1) If u really want to keep KB on them, e.g. to not loose fluffiness, then make it something at least A BIT useful. Maybe something simple like KB on 5+ or make all 6 on To-Hit rolls which also wound get KB. That would make it at least a bit interesting to have KB whereas standard KB is just a waste of points (in 8th). Anyway, who would (seriously!) use KB if that meant ASL with elves ? It's like asking for a beating and is exactly the issue right now. I don't think many people would consider it, given the option.
ReplyDelete2) Limiting the size to 20 ... I have my doubts about it. Seeing how your Execs cost 17 a piece this would make a horde really expensive. Since that really expensive horde only had T3, 5+ Armor and no inherent ward/regen I don't think that would be a major issue. Of course the cauldron comes into play here but thats another 200 points (or 225 with BSB) which will "only" mitigate 1/3 of the casualties. We are talking 40*17+220=900 points here and that is without any upgrades, banners, equipment, etc. And most of those points go into elites, blocking points for BG/Chariots. Not too scary imho.
How useful exactly would Heroic Killing Blow be, versus how many more points it would cost per model? Regular old killing blow is, yeah, pretty crap, but HKB is nasty, although further increasing the cost of T3, 5+ mans seems... dumb.
DeleteI agree that there shouldn't be a 20-man limit on the unit. Half of that is because I want my opponents to pour a ton of points into a deathstar so I can punish them with a Purple Sun.
Purple Sun doesn't do too much to I5 guys.
DeleteThe more I think about it the best thing do to would be a slight points bump, remove KB, and let them strike at initiative.
I'm oppposed to simply making the models cheaper and dropping KB completely. After all, it's an elven specialist unit, so they should be special in some way. I'd love to see some "synergy-style" special rule like:
Delete"At the begin of each combat phase, choose one unit in close combat with the executioners. For that combat phase the chosen unit gets the ASL special rule. Characters are except from this effect."
Imho, that kind of effect would invite some nice tactics while limiting it to one unit would still be vurnerable enough to multi charges so it does not get of hand - glancing at HE...
I still have my doubts about 17 points a piece. That's some _serious_ investement there. We are talking Swordmaster points level at like half the power. Being especially weak against cheap hordes demands caution during deployment and movement. Does anyone want to do some mathhammer to get a grip for the points cost ? ;-)
@Tim Skawinski
Purple Sun is kind of the perfect match for elves - don't do that. Just take _anything_ that goes straight for To-Wound rolls and you are good to go. Pump some generic 2d6 Str4 into them and watch the pain on your opponent's face.
Can't edit in place so here's my proposal for the executioners' special rule:
Delete"As long as a unit of executioners has a rank bonus of one or more they gain the 'Cold-blooded Killers' special rule.
Cold-blooded Killers:
The executioners of Naggaroth thrive on the pain of their victims, torturing them with every strike. They coordinate their attacks as to slow their enemies, prolonging their pain in the process.
At the beginning of each combat phase, choose one unit in close combat with the executioners. For that combat phase the chosen unit gets the ASL special rule. Characters and impact hits are exempt from this effect."
@Amnu (and Nikephoros) - I didn't mean Purple Sun against DElves actually; I just meant vs. deathstars in general. Against DElves I'd love to be playing my Goblins and use Da Bad Moon.
DeleteI know that striking at normal Initiative is probably the best way to make them competitive, but wouldn't that just make them off-brand Swordmasters? Perhaps rather make them cheaper and have the Draich's count as Halberds rather than great weapons. S:5 is still good.
I was thinking of letting them keep killing blow, but make Draiches act however you want: AHW, HW and Shield, Halberd, or Great Weapon. Keep them modular and useful.
DeleteGiving them that many options on what to count their weapons as seems a bit too good; I can see two, maybe three. And HW&Shield seems a bit off; I can't see a draich being too great at intercepting arrows or crossbow bolts.
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