Showing posts with label Dark Elves. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dark Elves. Show all posts

Tuesday, April 1, 2014

Dark Elves Army Book: Initial Impressions Part 2

I'm back already.  I wasn't kidding when I threatened to said I would post again.  You wanted it, you got it.  I want to do the next section of the Dark Elves Army Book impressions.  Again, I want to stress I haven't played this book yet, or a game of Fantasy itself in almost two years so there is a good chance my impressions of the viability of units is 100% wrong.  If I am wrong, please explain why in the comments so I can learn what's good more quickly.


Lords and Heroes

Dreadlord - In the last book with it's OP magic items, we had the "unkillable" dreadlord with a 1+/2++/4+regen save, often mounted on a Pegasus who causes all sorts of trouble.  Now, unfortunately, it appears you cannot really craft a DL that is worth the points.  Taking advantage of the 100 points of magic items is hardly worth it with such a paltry selection and it seems like there is no reason to bring this guy, unless you wanted a dragon mount which is hardly worth it.  I feel a pretty big 'pass' here.

Supreme Sorceress - The level 4 wizard is a pretty obligatory choice so unless I see some reason here not to take this... nope.  Give her a Sacrificial Dagger and a large unit of Spearmen, Lore of Shadow and she is good to go.

High Beastmaster - Hmmm.  Stats are in between a dreadlord and a master, but it gets a free Manticore or Chariot.  The selling point here is the Chariot with its Ravager Harpoon.  A strength 7 d3 wound bolt thrower that can move and shoot is pretty nifty but this is quite a bit of points for that.  I think I would pass.

Blackark Fleetmaster - A weird choice.  Show No Weakness is geared towards a character winning challenges being part of a unit.  So to maximize this, he has to be set up to win challenges by have his unit lose the fight.  I'm not a fan.

Sorceress - Lowbie wizard who for 115 points can get Tome of Furion and a Dark Pegasus to unleash a Black Horror that devastates the enemy.  I might not be able to find points for that in a 2000 point list, but I could see one in a 2500 list to cause chaos.

Master - This is the affordable combat character choice.  Last edition I liked this guy on foot in a unit of Executioners or on a Chariot.  You can't give a deathhag BSB anymore unless I'm reading this wrong, so this seems fairly obligatory in most lists to me.  Perhaps not on a chariot but existing in some form.

Deathhag -  I'm a huge fan of the Cauldron of Blood and what it does for your army.  Frenzy is often maligned as allowing your opponent to control you, but the other side of the coin is that it allows you to dictate the flow of the game.  I'm a fan.

Assassin - Playing with an Assassin is like playing with a unit that has Frenzy in a way.  If you play to maximize the Assassin it becomes obvious to your opponent that you have one.  The best use of an Assassin is always to kill your opponent's level 4 wizard early in the game, but most players go to great pains to keep their level 4 out of combat early so it will be pretty difficult to get that done.  Really cool theme but I don't think it is practical now.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?




Monday, March 31, 2014

Dark Elves Army Book: Initial Impressions Part 1

Uh hi.

Remember me?

No?  Well that's OK anyway.

The long story short is that I was once a competitive 40k/Fantasy player who got run out of the hobby by GW.  8th Edition Fantasy was pretty casual, and 6th Edition 40k was just soul-crushingly bad.  So bad, in fact, that I couldn't stomach playing it anymore.  When the new Marines book came out I thought, "maybe this will do it."  Then I read how Templars are rolled into it and are extremely non-competitive.  

Alright.  It's fine, I've gone almost two years without playing 40k and I don't mind waiting another few years before I play again.  

So why am I here?  The short story is that Xaereth's casual Fantasy comeback inspired me to take a look at the new Dark Elves book.  I don't think I'll ever play in another tournament, especially not one I have to travel for; but I can still enjoy a beer and pretzels game once a month, right?  If that is the type of experience GW wants to sell to players maybe I can enjoy that.  I went to the LGS and purchased the "new" Dark Elves book.  I won't lie, our 7th Edition book had some insanely OP stuff.  The units, the magic items, the special rules: it was easy for a 40k player who dabbled in Fantasy to beat players much more experienced than myself simply by overpowering them.  I don't expect this ability to continue.  

According to Xaereth, the army is a glass cannon now, my old list packed chariots and Hydras and all the characters had insanely good ward saves and the heaviest armor.  The only thing squishy were my troops, and a good Dark Elf Lord know they are expendable anyway.  For an army of Elves, my army was a cannon but it was anything but glass.  

Enough summary.  What am I going to do here?  I haven't played any games with this book so a review would be silly.  A review of an army you haven't played is like reading a review of a car written by someone who has only read the owners manual.  I won't pretend to know the current tournament meta (still crazy OP magic and ultra-powerful warmachines?) so I'm sure I will say stuff that sounds dumb to experienced players.  But what I will give you is my initial impression of each unit and the magic items and how I think they would play.  I might be right on or I might be way off.  In either case, maybe I'll have some insight into the book that someone else could find useful.  Hopefully my experience playing the old book and a lot of 8th edition won't steer me completely wrong in an embarrassing way.

You ready? Let's do it.

My Guild Wars 2 Thief would make a great Dark Elf Assassin
The best place to start is with the magic items, I think, because you can't make a greatly informed decision about the Lords and Heroes without knowing what OP things you can give them.

Magic Items

Hydra Blade - 100 Point magic weapons are almost never viable.  One with a drawback is instant pass.

Chillblade - 50 point magic weapon that doesn't have to roll to wound.  Anyone hit by it has to pass a toughness test or be -3 attacks for a while.  Seems like a weapon you would put on a high initiative low strength character whose goal is to not die rather than to win challenges.  Pretty marginal utility.

Black Dragon Egg - One use item that grants you strength 6 and toughness 6 and a breath weapon for one turn.  I am not in that business, though its a nice trick to have when someone thinks they are going to kill your squishy sorceress.  Still, I don't see this being competitive.

Cloak of Twilight - 3++ save vs ranged weapons and magic.  In the first round of any close combat the wearer has killing blow and multiple wounds d3.  This sounds like it was tailor made for a character on a chariot and/or dark pegasus warmachine/character hunter.  This might be viable.

Black Amulet - 4++ save that inflicts an unsaveable wound back on anyone who have an attacked saved by it.  60 points is a bit steep but the effect is pretty good.

Ring of Hotek - Magic Resistance 3 and a 6" aura where snake eyes and double 6 causes miscasts.  Pretty powerful.  It's best on a front line unit that is fast enough to get close to the enemy's magic bunker or a character on a pegasus.  I still think 6" is pretty prohibitive to use though.

Banner of Nagarythe - A banner that grants Unbreakable for 100 points.  No thanks.

Gem of Spite - I'm not in the business of intentionally miscasting to maybe hurt other wizards.

Sacrificial Dagger - Oh baby.  This was by far the best item in the last book.  Only 50% effective now, but if you fail to generate the power die you can try again.  Only 25 points, even at a reduced effectiveness, is still priced to sell.  This seems like it is still a must have.

Tome of Furion - 25 Points for a free Dark Magic spell you can choose.  This was good last edition and is good now.  The best use previously was to give a level 2 sorceress a 3rd spell of her choosing, and I reckon this is still the best way to use it.

Lore of Dark Magic

Spiteful Conjuration - Attribute - basically a buff to your spells that adds a few low strength hits.  A lot of the spells in the Lore are strong against plentiful weaklings so depending on the match up it can be great or terrible.

Power of Darkness - Signature Spell - Give a unit +1 Strength, generate d3 Power Dice.  If you generate 3 dice you take a wounds.  I envision having a level 1 sorceress with Tome of Furion casting a huge spell once per turn with this.  If she dies, she dies, but at least she gets off one mega spell.

Doombolt - Signature Spell - 2d6 strength 2 magic missile that reduces the enemy unit balistic by 1.  A good way to slow down a large unit of archers, but how can that compare to the Power of Darkness?

Word of Pain - Hex spell that does -d3 to weaponskill and ballistic, can be buffed to affect Strength and Initiative as well.  Pretty strong on the 12+ version and ensures that your unit will win any combat.

Bladewind - Direct damage spell that requires the unit to pass a strength test or everyone takes a strength 4 hit.  Really good against large units of weaklings, obviously.  

Shroud of Despair - Hex prevents enemies from using Inspiring Presence and hold your ground.  This can be situationally powerful against low Leadership armies who rely on their general for Leadership.  Easy to think of a few like that, otherwise skip this.

Soul Stealer - A small blast template that inflicts Strength 2 hits with no armor.  You wizard gains wounds up to 10.  Another good spell against weak hordes.  Ideally super strong on a roaming pegasus sorceress who will be soaking up some hits.  Strength 2 hits even with no armor are nothing to be super excited about.

Black Horror - A magic vortex that forces strength tests and kills outright and can backfire spectacularly.  Yet another spell that picks on weaklings.  Sensing a theme here?  This one is pretty meh, but when used on a Pegasus Sorceress it can do serious work devastating someone's entire line.  

Summary: The best magic items appear to be geared towards increasing the capabilities of your casters.  The combat weapons are fairly weak, though the cloak of twilight seems good.  The magic lore seems like a good support Lore.  I would guess the best thing would be to take Shadow on your Supreme and then a level 1 who likes to live dangerous with Tome of Furion to being Power of the Darkness and Blackhorror on a Pegasus or dark steed.  My impression is that the only time you want to really go Supreme Sorceress is when you're facing an s3/t3 army.  But even then, the Lore of Shadows seems superior.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?




Monday, October 1, 2012

Email In: Dark Elf 2k List Advice


Tom writes:

"Hey Nike, 

I've been reading your blog for a little while now ever since I got back into Warhammer, and I was wondering if you could give me some tips on my Dark Elves, and probably at a later time my Space Marines too haha. 

This is what my Army list looks like at the moment:

Lords: 

Supreme Sorceress 315pts
- Lvl 4
- Life Taker
- Sacrificial Dagger
- Shadow
- Power of Darkness

Heroes

Sorceress 125pts
- Dispell Scroll 
- Fire
- Power of Darkness

Death Hag 250pts
- Cauldron of Blood 
- Rune of Khaine
- Manbane

Core

20 Dark Elf Warriors 155pts
- Shields
- Full Command

20 Dark Elf Warriors 155pts
- Shields
- Full Command

20 Dark Elf Crossbowmen 205pts
- Musician 

Special 

10 Cold One Knights 335pts
- Full Command
- Banner of Murder

20 Black Guard 267pts
- Musician 

Rare

War Hydra 175pts



SO what's the go with what… 

One Sorceress goes with one of the blocks of Spearmen, the other Sorceress goes with the other block. 
Cauldron lingers behind moving up, so it can buff a unit. The Cold One Knights can get in close and personal, or provide a flank bonus, with the Black Guard being a main target too. 

The Blocks of Warriors can be really buffed up by shadow, or have their enemies buffed down, and I kept the musician's in with the Crossbowmen and the Black Guard just for leadership purposes, with the reasoning behind no standard bearer being that hopefully I won't need the extra point in combat res. 

I have 15pts left over to spend, so am thinking of adding a Standard of Discipline onto one of the Spearmen units, or adding in a Standard to the Black Guard. 

What do you think? I haven't played a game with this army and still need to purchase some of the models such as the Hydra etc., so any criticisms or suggestions for models to buy is all good, because I don't want to waste money on things I won't use. 

Thanks, 

Tom"

What?  No dragons?!"


Reply:

So there are some issues, both major and minor, with this list that I want to address.  I’ll start with the minor ones, and then address the major ones.

Minor issues:

  • I don’t understand the Fire Sorceress.  Random Fire magic spells are pretty lame, I guess your plan is Fireball spam?  Seems weak to me.  Also, you need to look at the price of the magic bunker when taking into account her cost.  This is a fantastically expensive unit that is not at all scary at magic or combat.  I would make her Shadow Magic, and probably lose the bunker.
  • I don’t get the close combat upgrades on the Cauldron.  The Cauldron shouldn’t often be in close combat, and if it is in close combat things are going very wrong.  Also, it’s no slouch in CC.  Anything in close combat with it that actually threatens it isn’t going to be phased by those upgrades, so they seem a waste of points.
  • Full Command on your magic bunkers is bad.  You don’t need the Lordling.  He doesn’t add leadership, just one extra piddly attack.  Those points would be better spent on banners that assist with Leadership or giving the unit Flaming attacks.
  • Banner of Murder belongs on the Blackguard, since the armor piercing actually matters.  The COK need Haeg Graef for ASF.  Also, you want full command on the BG.  Not having a magic item on the officer is throwing away free value.
  • Break the Repeater Crossbowmen into MSU.  You want to be able to target multiple units per turn, and reduce your vulnerability to AOE magic and warmachines.

Major Issues:

  • You don’t have enough threats.  Before buying the COK or BG I would make sure you have a second Hydra.  You need to present your opponent with more threats than he has answers. 
  • The threats you do have are have all different speeds.  This is crucial.  Your opponent can focus fire on your units from fastest to slowest and destroy you bit by bit.  By making target priority so easy, you are essentially making your fewer threats significantly less scary.

Changes:
  • Add the second Hydra. 
  • Break the RXB into two units of 10 with banner and musician. 
  • Lose the second magic bunker unit.  Make the first one 30 strong, add banner of Leadership.  Use the left over points to buy more units of RXB.  Do not exceed 500 points on Core.
  • Lose either the BG or the COK.  I recommend losing the COK.  Buy a second unit of BG.  Use the points savings to properly equip them with full command and offensive magic items.  Any extra points will go towards the Hydra.
  • Lose the offensive upgrades on the Hag.
  • Lose the L1 Sorceress.  Her contribution will be trivial, and her points will go a long way towards the second Hydra.

The results will be you now have 4 seriously scary units, your magic isn’t significantly worse, and you have significantly more and better scoring units.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Friday, June 1, 2012

Culling the Weak: Fixing The Bad Dark Elf Units Part One


This series might come off badly.  The Dark Elves are undeniably one of the most competitive books in Fantasy and transitioned very well to 8th Edition.  So complaining about the bad units might seem to some folks like a 40k player complaining about the crappy Grey Knights units. 

Fair enough.

That said, some of the Dark Elves bad units have exceptionally cool models or flavor.  It is hard to describe how badly players want Executioners to be playable models.  They are so cool that people jump through insane hoops just to turn them into a mediocre unit on the tabletop while gimping the rest of their army in the first place.  People are willing to ignore reality in order to maintain a false hope.  Don’t believe me?  How do you think organized religion rakes in so much cash? 

Note I am not a game designer, so I can’t argue that the proposed changes are perfectly balanced, but I’ll do my best.  If something seems amiss, let me know in the comments.

First up, Executioners.

How can you not want to play models this cool?


Why they are bad

They are the worst imaginable version of High Elf Swordmasters.  For 12 points a piece, they are strength 6 with killing blow and hatred.  Sounds great!  But they are toughness 3 with 5+ armor and Always Strike Last.  Sounds fucking awful!  The Swordmasters get uber strikers first, which by eliminates the strikes last, and also gives them Hatred.  Killing Blow, unfortunately, is irrelevant when you are Strength 6.  Nothing that can be killed with Killing Blow is going survive your hits anyway, so it’s a useless ability.  Don’t yell at me, I know that mathhammer-wise, it combos well with Hatred to result in a lot of extra kills.  Irrelevant.

The main reason why they are bad boils down to simply this: they are squishy elves who strike last.  Very lame.  The only way to make up for the fact that they die before they get to strike is to buy more of them.  That is what my friends in finance call “throwing good money after bad.”  When you have a bad hand, you don’t double down on it, especially when your opponent knows you have a bad hand and will call your bluff.  Just dumb.

Design Philosophy

So how do you fix them without making them ridiculous like Swordmasters?  Good question.  Allowing them to take 35 point banners so they can take the ASF banner is the most frequent suggestion.  But that’s dumb, because you shouldn’t have to buy a specific magic banner in order to make your unit do the basic task that it was designed to do.  That would be pretty poor game design, and I’ll immediately dismiss it. 

Another limit to set is that they can’t be better than Swordmasters.  If our goal is to fix them, I’m not going to ‘fix’ them in a way that makes them better or equal to some other broken unit. 

The last limit is that I can’t make them better than Blackguard.  Blackguard are the best infantry unit in the army book on the table top and from a fluff perspective, they ought to be.  So if I make a unit that immediately outclasses them, why would anyone bring Blackguard outside of some theme list? 

Fixing Them

Har Ganeth Executioners 17 points per model

Unit Size
5-20

Equipment
Heavy Armor
Draich (counts as a great weapon)

Special Rules
Eternal Hatred
Khainite
Cold-blooded Killers

Cold-blooded Killers:    Executioners don’t slowly torture their victims like most Dark Elves; they are trained to kill exerting the minimum necessary effort, ideally with a single blow.  A unit of Executioners must decide at the beginning of each round of combat between the following two options: Always Strike Last but gain Killing Blow, or to strike at their normal initiative.

Rationale

I limited their unit size to prevent people from making hordes.  Being able to attack with a third rank is a little too good when you are I5 and Str6.  I wanted to limit the amount of potential casualties they could inflict in a single round of combat to a maximum of 20, assuming they rolled perfectly.

I upgraded their points cost, since they did receive a power boost in order to keep Blackguard competitive.  The changes overall fully distinguish the roles for each unit.  Executioners are designed to put out a small number of accurate high strength attacks.  They are best at cutting down enemy heavy infantry.  Blackguard are designed to output tons of medium strength accurate attacks to mow down medium and light infantry.  Now their roles are more distinguished.
Additionally, I kept them much less powerful than Swordmasters.  You might argue that they are now overpowered.  Compare them with Chaos Warriors armed with Halberds and Mark of Khorne.  They are probably a little worse overall than Khorne Warriors for about the same amount of points, which is fair since Chaos Warriors are supposed to be around the power level of other armies’ elite infantry.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Wednesday, May 9, 2012

Email In: Dark Elf 2,000pt List Advice


Underworld writes,

“Hello Nike,

After stumbling across your blog as i debate getting back into WFB with a dark elf army, having not played properly since 6th, i have been impressed and amused with your articles and unit break downs and was wondering if you could possibly provide some input on my sketched out list for a 2000pt army.

While i dont really play at competitive events, falling more into the beer and pretzels category, my regular opponents and i all have a competitive edge amongst ourselves and the prospects of a campaign and tournament are being discussed so a an unfocused list is likely to get stomped without much more than a whimper.

Play style wise while i like the imagery of your chariot lists i have always been more an elite infantry man (also, chariots appear to be increasingly hard to get a hold of) although adding mounted sections to my armies when i was playing 6th was one of the things i kept debating on. I also have a tendency to be hesitant in sinking a lot of points into characters as i tend to prefer more elite boots on the ground.

I will be buying from scratch with a reasonably large budget so i have the advantage of being able to focus build from the start. That said the flexibility to field more generic lists would be welcome for when we are just having a fun game.

My current list looks like this on paper.

Supreme Sorceress @ lvl 3 w/ sacrifical dagger + lifetaker 280
Sorceress @ lvl 2 w/ tome of furion 150
Master w/ halberd, armour of eternal servitude shield and sea dragon cloak, dragonbane gem 155

28 spear men w/shields and full command 211

20 Repeater Crossbow w/shields and musician 225

6 Harpies 66

20 Blackguard w full command and banner of murder 320

6 shades w/ additional hand weapon 102

8 Cold one knights 216

War hydra 175

Repeater bolt thrower 100

Over your articles ive seen you really hammering the points home on the hydra and i was debating fitting another into the list, probably at the expense of the knights with the left over points snagging a ward save for the supreme sorceress or bumping her to level 4 or adding a few models to the shades/harpies. Like wise i have been debating the efficency and usefullness of the bolt thrower which i fear is 100 points 'could be spent elsewhere, namely towards a hydra'.

The general idea is to anchor my line with the black guard who, again i stress my time out from the game, on paper look capable of holding their own against most other infantry outside of the real heavy weights. They can move forward aggressively should i need to close distance against gun-line armies (where my shades and harpies will hopefully deal with the most devastating war-machines at the earliest opportunity should they be present, although im sadly awear that there will probably be a lot of dead elves either way) if im facing an army that will be coming towards me they can form the anvil to take the charge while my crossbow rounds and magic whittle numbers down.

In either case my knights and hydra have a tag team combo smash as the armies hammer units.
Magically i was thinking shadows and metal/fire as my lores depending on what i get stuck against across the board. The big spear man unit is a bunker for one or both of the sorceresses, certainly the supreme with the dagger, the other can go with the black guard/crossbows if i deem putting all my magical eggs in 1 basket a terrible idea (looking at the miscast table it certainly appears that way...)

Any input or criticism would be much appreciated if you could spare the time.

Underworld.”



Reply: It’s not a horrible base, but it’s a bit battle-forcey.  Luckily, there are some very simple tweaks we can do to get it competitive.

First, Lords and Heroes.  You need to make your Level 3 into a Level 4.  Would you pay 35 points for a magic item that gave you an extra spell and added +1 to all casting and dispel rolls?  Ofcourse, so it’s a not brainer here.  Also, drop the Level 2.  It’s not going to be that great at 2k.  Also drop Lifetaker from the SS and add an Iron Curse Icon.

Also, there is no point to that Master as you have him built since he is a defensive tank with no offensive capability who doesn’t have any army or unit buffs.  For 25 points, make him a BSB and put him in with the Spearmen.  Remember, there will be times when you need Sac Dagger to kill a guy and killing that guy will lead to a Panic test.  You need a BSB around for that to keep your Level 4 from running off the table.  Having a BSB will also help in Blood and Glory scenarios to keep your breaking point high.

Second, Core.  Harpies do not count towards your Core requirement, so your list is illegal as written.  You need 500 points of legit Core, so dump the Harpies, add more RXB.  Next, split the 26 RXB into two units of 13 and buy them each standard bearers.  Spearmen are fine, except you need to dump the unit champ.  Waste of points, the extra attack he adds is more than worthless.

Third, Specials.  Blackguard are perfecto.   Drop the Knights.  Use the points from Knights and Level 2 to buy another unit of Black Guard with Razor Standard.  Drop the AHW from the Shades and drop them to 5 guys; you don’t want them in close combat except against warmachine crew.  The idea with them is to deploy them on the enemy back lines and shoot at warmachines or harass big units.

Lastly Rares.  Lose the Reaper.  Add a second Hydra.  If you’re lucky, the Reaper will kill 5-10 guys per game.  If you’re lucky, your Hydra will kill several whole units per game.  The only time I favor Reapers over Hydra is when your army has tons of CC ability elsewhere (Witch Elves, or triple Black Guard lists) and you need ranged ability more than you need more CC ability.




And done.  This army will be a lot more aggressive.  Two units of BG and two Hydra will pack a ton more close combat punch than you had before.  You’re lighter on magic, but you need CC ability and a BSB much more than you need a Level 2 who might cast a Metal buff a couple times per game.  You’ll want to move everything forward as quickly as possible across the board except the RXB who should defend the flanks of your magic bunker.

Remember a big thing about Dark Elves: they are Elves.  They hit hard, but aren’t usually tough.  You can’t win battles of attrition usually, therefore you’re looking for knockout blows.  Your magic phase should support that, by casting Shadow debuffs/buffs and Pits of Shades that will take out huge chunks of the enemy.  Trying to use your magic phase to help your army win battles of attrition is usually a bad move because it doesn’t compliment the goal of how you’re going to win the game.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Friday, May 4, 2012

Today in Awful Wareer Tactics Part 19

It's been a while since I've done one of these and I know you guys enjoy them, so I sacrificed my own sanity to delve into the metaphorical muck of Warseer's forums to bring you another episode of people asking stupid questions, getting even stupider answers, and me making fun of them.  This entry deals with a guy who plays Dark Elves but loses all the time.  His spelling and grammar are atrocious, so perhaps it's an intelligence issue.  Or perhaps not.  Let's see, my comments are as always, in orange.


Bleekeboy: Hi guy's,


I playing dark elves, and need some help.
The most of the times i play agains is skaven and beastmen, but somehow i lose al the time.
i could use some nasty tactics to beat them .


I got alomst every model.


So the obvious thing to do is ask him what kinds of lists he runs.  Any major flaws (not enough magic, not enough Hydra, too many Executioners etc.) could be pointed out and we could send him on his way.  Let's see what we get from the scum of the internet...


Joeman169: What units are you taking? I like 30 or so executions with banner of the hag graef, and a 35+ horde of corsairs to match. 1 cauldron to give ward save where needed, little bit of magic, sprinkle in some repeating crossbows for added effect and you should more often than not vs those 2 arrmies.

Yes, he should definitely run 30 of a horrible unit lead by a horrible character, supported by a horrible core choice.  And good call advising someone playing one of the best magic armies in the game to bring "a little bit of magic."

Tamarichards: A Fire level 2, who can also carry your Dispel Scroll, will make fairly short work of abombs and will also add a good bit to all-round lists.

Really.  The best thing you can think to do to kill abominations is bringing a 170 point character who serves almost no other purpose?  And you claim that this kind of blatant tailoring qualifies as an "all-round" list choice?  For shame!

Oberst: for which size?? 3000 points? In 2000 I use to take 15 cold one with a noble an the banner of hydra and just a lvl 4 often shadow or black, sometimes death.

Thanks for telling us about your garbage Cold One Knight deathstar.

Symrivven: Dark riders are nice, but practically everything they can do shades can do better.

Yeah I love doing feigned retreats with my Shades completely cock blocking someone's deathstar.  dot dot dot.

Zabousta: I have to say I am surprised that everyone is suggesting Executioners for a fight against Skaven. Since his opponent till have little armor and T3 throughout most of his army, Witch Elves are a much better option.

Decent advice, except this is really taking list tailoring to a new level since Witch Elves aren't exactly awesome vs. all comers.  Wouldn't Corsairs be better?

Don Zeko: I wouldn't recommend taking assassins in a competitive list in 8th edition. They're far too expensive for what you get.

Finally someone posts something intelligent!  Thanks to you, I get to stop.

Well that challenged my sanity.  I hope you enjoyed, because I did not.

Tuesday, April 24, 2012

My Current Lists: Dark Elves 2,500


I feel kinda dumb doing this article since I just posted my “current” DE list last month, but since that one is out of date, this isn’t entirely inappropriate.  Not too many major changes, and it pretty much plays the exact same as before, just more reliable due to a harder to kill battle standard bearer.  Here goes…

Now where did I park my Dark Pegasus?


Lords

Dreadlord
-Dark Pegasus
-PoK
-CoC
-Whip of Agony
-mundane armor kit
=300

Supreme Sorceress
-Level 4 (Shadow)
-Dark Steed
-Focus Familiar
=315

Heroes

Sorceress
-Level 2 (Metal)
-Dark Steed
-Tome of Furion
=162

Master
-Cold One Chariot
-Mundane Armor kit
-Crimson Death
=205

Death Hag
-Battle Standard Bearer
-Cauldron of Blood
=225

[The big change here is the switch to the Cauldron BSB.  I’ve explained this change in length before, and it’s mostly all upside.  I love the Dreadlord, but there are times when I really wish I had a second level 4 in that slot; usually turns when I roll like 11 power dice, haha.  I think the DL is better for all comers than a second Supreme Sorceress would be, especially against warmachine or deathstar armies.]

Core

12x Repeater Crossbowmen
-Shields
-Standard
-Musician
=142

12x Repeater Crossbowmen
-Shields
-Standard
-Musician
=142

5x Dark Riders
-Repeater Crossbows
-Musician
=117

5x Dark Riders
-Repeater Crossbows
-Musician
=117

5x Dark Riders
-Repeater Crossbows
-Musician
=117

[Same core as before.  Dark Riders really aren’t meant to last more than a few turns, which is a pre-emptive answer to people who say that they die easily.  I expect to be able to abuse their vanguard movement to screw up my opponent’s deployment, to use their feigned retreats to slow my opponent’s beater units and death stars, and to provide ablative wounds to my Dark Steed equipped casters through LoS saves.  All of these things are likely to result in their deaths eventually, sooner rather than later.  Which is fine to me because by the time my chariots and hydras are hitting their lines, I don’t need the Dark Riders anymore.]

Special

3x Cold On Chariots
=300

Rare

2x WarHydra
=350

[Same beater units as before, same weaknesses against big blocks as before.  You need to skillfully use Magic and multi-charging to beat armies with big blocks without being bogged down.  Against elite or MSU armies you can just rampage at will.]

Total: 2,492.

This leaves me with 8 points extra, so likely some character will get a 5 point random magic item, unless someone has some cooler suggestions.  I’m all ears.  In any event, I hope to get some bat reps done soon with the list so you can see how it plays out.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Editorial: The Awesomeness of Being Totally Wrong


I love, and I mean I absolutely love, when I am proven wrong about something in a competitive game.  Most people would think the opposite; that I would always want to be right, and get the validation of everyone telling me how right I am.  Maybe some folks do prefer that.  Personally, I love when I’m wrong about a conclusion. 

Why?  Simple really.  Let’s say I think a Unit A is great and Unit B sucks.  I play with A, and I win a lot simply because I’m a pretty good player.  Then one day I try using Unit B on a lark.  And I find out that not only does Unit B not suck, it is infinitely better than Unit A!  That’s the best feeling ever.  It’s akin to being one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, then having a coach ask you to change one small thing and after you do, you become an even better quarterback. 

It’s a total free-roll.  Playing with the house’s money at that point.  And I love it.

I bet by now that you are wondering what miraculous discovery I made that led me to make some sick brags about how I am so smart that on the rare times I’m wrong I impress myself.

So here it is, and it relates to Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Dark Elves.

I painted this, hence why it looks terrible.

The Cauldron of Blood is really good.  Especially in my chariot list.  The end.


Actually you deserve a bit more explanation for having put up with that lengthy preamble.

I was judging the CoB based on 7th Edition ideas, quite honestly.  In 7th Edition, Deathstars were godly for Dark Elves.  And the CoB made them even godlier.   So essentially, I was judging the CoB by the usefulness of the buffs it gives out.  And this was the correct evaluation, at the time.

However when 8th Edition hit and the DE deathstars died, I was quick to notice that the buffs weren’t nearly as useful unless you’re running big hordes.   Unfortunately, big hordes of ranked infantry are only useful if your units are dirt cheap, which DE aren’t.  So I didn’t give it much thought anymore.

Once I started down the road of developing my chariot list, my initial goal was to pack as many chariots in as possible.  And that necessitated having my BSB ride a chariot.  Under normal circumstances, I would never put a BSB on a chariot, because it would be a fire magnet.  Generally a BSB has to sit in a unit to keep the heat off of him.

In the chariot list though, he is safer because there are 4 other chariots in front of him and two hydras nearby that are probably higher priority targets for the same types of things you’d shoot at the BSB with.  And it was fine.  I played many games with the list, and won many of them.  The BSB on a chariot was rarely a liability.

But I started to ask myself questions like, “since I rarely commit the BSB’s chariot to combat where he could be killed much easier, why am I spending 90 points on a chariot that is essentially an offensive upgrade weapon?”  As a quick aside, it is important, even when you’re ‘sure’ you have a finely tuned and optimal list to ask yourself critical questions about it.  You may have a great answer for those questions which is fine.  Or maybe you won’t have a good answer and you’ll find out some great new information.

The answer to my question was unsatisfactory.  The chariot was by and large a waste of points since I rarely risked putting him into close combat.  But what was the alternative?  A walking BSB needs a big unit, and the strength of the list is not having big dumb blocks.  A BSB on a Dark Steed was a thought, but I ruled it out because while the Sorceresses on Steeds can play line of sight cute tricks to not get killed, the BSB kinda has to be in the right place at the right time.

So I considered, “why not use a CoB as a BSB?”  My initial reply was, “because the buffs aren’t worth it.”  And I was right, the CoB buffs alone are not worth it.  But maybe it’s strengths as a BSB are worth it.  It’s a Toughness 10, 4++ ward, 13 attacks plus Hatred behemoth.  It really is exceptionally hard to kill, which is a huge asset in a game system where the guy who loses his BSB first is at a tremendous disadvantage.

If you evaluate it as a tough as hell to kill BSB first, and look at the unit buffing ability as a nice bonus, the value of the unit really jumps out at you.  If my unit buffs end up not doing much, I’m OK with that because I’m getting such great value out of a T10 4W battle standard bearer.  If the buffs do end up doing something valuable, that’s icing on the cake.

And I was right, the CoB is a most excellent upgrade in my Dark Elves chariot list.  My list is now much better (post on the updated list someday soon) and wins more games more easily. 

The conclusion here really isn’t specific to Dark Elves or even Fantasy; it’s broadly applicable to anything you’re competitive about or even life in general.  Don’t be afraid to ask yourself tough questions about closely held ideas and challenge your faith in everything you have faith in.  Socrates was fond of saying that the unexamined life isn’t worth living, and he was right.  Be introspective about everything, and your life will improve in meaningful ways.  Be introspective about your wargaming lists and strategies and your game play will improve in meaningful ways.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?

Thursday, March 15, 2012

My Current Lists: Dark Elves 3,000


Grand Armies are a strange beast.  The game clearly breaks down at 3,000 points.  You have enough points to comfortably bring two Lord level wizards without taking anything away from the nuts and bolts of your list.  If you have an army book capable of generating additional power dice to satisfy the needs to two wizard lords the game can get really nutty really quickly.  All the things people commonly cite for why Fantasy is non-competitive and bad are mostly untrue… until you hit 3,000 points.  At 3,000 almost all the complaints are quite founded.

But alas, ‘Ard Boyz is played at this absurd points level for some reason and thus once (hopefully twice!) a year I’m forced to play a 3,000 point army.  Here is my current list for this non-sense.

My Dreadlord hates Grand Armies

Lords

Supreme Sorceress
-Lore of Shadow
-Level 4
-Focus Familiar
-Talisman of Preservation
-Dark Steed
=360

Supreme Sorceress
-Lore of Metal
-Level 4
-Pendant of Khaleth
-Dark Steed
=325

[At this points level and with Power of Darkness, not bringing SS would be purposefully gimping my list.  Thanks to PoD, DE magic scales with the points level whereas most other books get weaker.  At lower points levels I can use Focus Familiar and Dark Steed to keep the caster safe.  At this dumb points level I need real wards to make me feel better about their safety.  Additionally, at lower points levels, magic isn’t as important to the list’s success, whereas it is vital at this level, so the wards are like an insurance policy for the list.]

Heroes

Master
-BSB
-Cold One Chariot
-Armor of Eternal Servatude
-Dragonbane Gem
-Halberd
-Shield
-Sea Dragon Cloak
=245

[Same loadout as the 2.5k build, except better because I have even more scary big stuff to keep him as a lesser target.]

Core

11x Repeater Crossbowmen
-Shield
-Standard
-Musician
=136

11x Repeater Crossbowmen
-Shield
-Standard
-Musician
=136

10x Repeater Crossbowmen
-Shield
-Standard
-Musician
=125


6x Dark Riders
-Musician
-Repeater Crossbows
=139

5x Dark Riders
-Musician
-Repeater Crossbows
=117

5x Dark Riders
-Musician
-Repeater Crossbows
=117

[The core is superfluous, as in the 2.5k list.  The Xbowmen sit back and on the flanks to keep faster enemy units from flanking the monsters.  The Dark Steeds use the vanguard redeployment trick, and they give 4++ LOS saves to your Sorceresses, and they are decent harassers in a pinch.  They are much more fragile at this points level, though, so I gave the Sorceresses wards because I place little trust in the Look Out Sir! save being there on turn 2+]

Special

Cold One Chariot
=100

Cold One Chariot
=100

Cold One Chariot
=100

Cold One Chariot
=100

Cold One Chariot
=100

Cold One Chariot
=100


[Three basic chariots are tough to kill at 2.5k for a lot of lists.  Adding three more is bad beats for the opponent.  You actually run into problems of not having enough space to deploy them all, having difficulty wheeling/maneuvering, and arranging multi-charges with 7 CoK on the board all nearby each other.  Of all the problems to have, having too much of a good thing is one I’ll settle for.]

Rare

War Hydra
=175

War Hydra
=175

War Hydra
=175

War Hydra
=175


[Other than a lucky as hell Purple Sun, I’m not sure of many ways people have to kill four Hydras before they get a chance to impact combat.  They are simply nuts.]

Total: 3,000

This list is well rounded with excellent magic, and has amazing combat capability.  The biggest weakness is against large blocks of ranked infantry, but I mitigate that as best I can with Shadow Magic.  My local meta is mostly elite armies and deathstars, and not many horde lists so I feel this is an acceptable trade off.  Your local mileage may vary on that.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Questions?