tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post8767214458848173973..comments2024-03-20T02:13:39.387-04:00Comments on Bringer of Victory: 40k-metrics: The Rhino ConundrumNikephoroshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-23676728234089319512011-08-06T18:52:09.294-04:002011-08-06T18:52:09.294-04:00I think that's a problem with the metric in ge...I think that's a problem with the metric in general, because it abstract away important things like an army's ability to leverage its optimal shooting and charging by using movement to gain optimal position. <br /><br />There's no point in calculating the optimal shooting and assault if you don't know how to optimize your ability to deliver those dice downfield. <br /><br />I mean, anyone can calculate how many Space Marines/Rhinos/Land Raiders unit x can kill. The question is how that unit integrates with its army to win the game when that game ends.Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03333941626425462180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-2273276938656760122011-08-01T08:59:32.136-04:002011-08-01T08:59:32.136-04:00The only thing I'll say is that for MANY unit ...The only thing I'll say is that for MANY unit types and sizes, firepower is only the reliable way to kill tanks. Shooting lots of guns at large squads in cover doesn't always work out the way you want it to, and killing INFANTRY is a measure of combat more than it's a measure of guns.<br /><br />This is why lists that simply cannot position and plan for charging survivors with meltaguns find themselves in such hairy situations in many games ... because shoot all you want, if you aren't there and ready to charge down survivors, you aren't in a good position as a player.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-39496802231209777362011-07-31T17:40:54.964-04:002011-07-31T17:40:54.964-04:00As long as we are being "reasonable" abo...As long as we are being "reasonable" about the number of Rhinos, then comparing like to like would work. IMO, it can also work for comparing any list for raw power, because the most common armies today are mech marines of some sort. It may fail in a X vs X scenario (where X = some non-SM codex) to some extent, but I don't think that much.<br /><br />I'm not too troubled by comparing mech marine gunline vs foot marines, because I'll spend less time needing my DRPG ability and be able to focus on DMS/DMCC abilities during the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-47171747044362343692011-07-29T18:14:21.026-04:002011-07-29T18:14:21.026-04:00@lehcyfer I don't care about "defensive ...@lehcyfer I don't care about "defensive attributes" because those generally don't correlate to wins on the table top unless the scenarios are unbalanced. <br /><br />When you look at winning lists and losing lists what you see is that the winning lists and losing lists have very similar defensive attributes. What sets them apart is offensive capability. Offense matters.Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-88023559893663402342011-07-29T11:22:29.823-04:002011-07-29T11:22:29.823-04:00The metric is a good basis for tweaking lists with...The metric is a good basis for tweaking lists within a framework, but that's about it. Sure, the mobility factor of transports, etc may have an effect on the probability of getting weapon X into its sweet spot, etc. But how does one quantify it?Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09254648458761984561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-42209803931433871342011-07-29T08:03:53.006-04:002011-07-29T08:03:53.006-04:00"2k list with 50 Rhinos"
Are you joking..."2k list with 50 Rhinos"<br /><br />Are you joking? The max number of rhinos is 14. We are moving in codified space and arguments taken from the moon don't stick.<br /><br />I would agree that around 10 the returns start to diminish, and it should be visible in point cost effectiveness.<br /><br />Anyways your system is for quick and dirty approximate attack ability comparisons and simply doesn't take into consideration defensive attributes of given armies. Perhaps that's something to take into consideration as for egzample statistics of losses under fire from a specified number of bolters/missile launchers/meltaslehcyferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06904410779802891166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-35262410557119345222011-07-29T04:38:58.256-04:002011-07-29T04:38:58.256-04:00Why should they multiply anything when they don...Why should they multiply anything when they don't add any firepower?Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-53970644249613256452011-07-29T04:22:27.349-04:002011-07-29T04:22:27.349-04:00I'm glad that this was brought up. I think th...I'm glad that this was brought up. I think that the Rhino situation is a big deal and should involve some type of metrics multiplier.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11554970368519765189noreply@blogger.com