tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post5296691291742410662..comments2024-03-20T02:13:39.387-04:00Comments on Bringer of Victory: 40k Theory: Offense and DefenseNikephoroshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-2994406307910599052011-07-16T21:04:16.867-04:002011-07-16T21:04:16.867-04:00I don't think that you've spent 500 words ...I don't think that you've spent 500 words explaining something we already know. Why? Because I had not yet consciously considered the comparison between adding more bodies and simply adding another unit. <br /><br />Great article, it has given me some insight about a list that I'm working on. Thank You!Devjonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07126096792379344134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-11250796091837359812011-07-13T19:39:40.655-04:002011-07-13T19:39:40.655-04:00Yep - 3 units of 2 hive guard give more bang for t...Yep - 3 units of 2 hive guard give more bang for the buck than 2 units of 3. Can't argue there, but you quickly get to a position where you want to use that third elite slot. MSU philosophy just doesn't seem applicable very often when you're writing a nid list.<br /><br />Anyway - thanks for the recent articles... I've been enjoying them. Sorry to bang on about this fearless thing so much, with hindsight it's not as interesting as the defensive vs offensive points costing analysis. Please do continue!Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528108647208323456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-9171289929031068552011-07-13T19:07:05.891-04:002011-07-13T19:07:05.891-04:00I don't think I'd advocate MSU for Orks or...I don't think I'd advocate MSU for Orks or Nids combat units.<br /><br />But certain units may be better MSU depending on the points level, like Hive Guard, Lootaz etc.Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-68609907100414335472011-07-13T15:00:08.062-04:002011-07-13T15:00:08.062-04:00Somehow I managed to miss my most important point ...Somehow I managed to miss my most important point out of that reply. It's the quality of army wide armour saves that makes you hurt with fearless wounds.<br /><br />Orks and nids both have units of poorly protected troops that are easy to tag into assault and inflict large numbers of casualties on. That then either forces a large number of saves on high toughness beasts with a good save and few wounds and/or units with lots of bodies and poor saves. Those free wounds are inflicted on every fearless unit in the combat, so if you lose it's better to have fewer units in the combat.<br /><br />Purifiers are a unit with a big incentive to MSU - each new unit brings more psycannons slots and can cast cleansing flame. The damage output of a stealer units scales linearly with each stealer you add, they don't rely on upgrade characters, and they have defensive incentives to take large units. I'd be interested if you have any examples of people maxing the nid force org chart with smaller units of stealers and doing well.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528108647208323456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-16347693878333356502011-07-12T13:43:01.999-04:002011-07-12T13:43:01.999-04:00This is one of those situations where the offensiv...This is one of those situations where the offensive potential is the same, but defensive strategy and synergy in the list pushes the stealers into large squads.<br /><br />While it doesn't change damage output, if you did manage to win a combat against those stealer units, you'd do double fearless wounds against the two units than you would against the single unit. And more likely, you'd be doing the wounds to termagants and getting them for free on the other units.<br /><br />The fearless wounds really hamstring monstrous creatures when they're around smaller creatures. It's not fun.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528108647208323456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-14656578861838272312011-07-11T20:05:09.331-04:002011-07-11T20:05:09.331-04:00Actually, multiple combat rules hurt big units of ...Actually, multiple combat rules hurt big units of fearless troops more than little ones. MSU Purifiers players don't complain about Fearless wounds. Ork/Nid players do, though.<br /><br />Anyway, I agree with your point about CC power increasing with unit size... but on a unit by unit basis. At the army level overall 2 units of 10 guys have the same total output as 1 unit of 20.Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6065491601593693979.post-60387665538628642922011-07-11T19:47:24.309-04:002011-07-11T19:47:24.309-04:00What you're stating makes sense as far as shoo...What you're stating makes sense as far as shooting offense goes. For CC units offense scales proportionally with unit size. The same applies to a lesser extent to utility of screening or bubble-wrap units.<br /><br />The obvious example from my codex is genestealers - adding bodies to stealer units adds both resilience and punch. Large units are more resilient than multiple small units of stealers because of synergy with a Tervigon's catalyst power. It also makes it somewhat easier to take advantage of cover, as you can keep a majority in cover and saafely snake a conga line out to provide cover to other units or towards enemy you want to charge.<br /><br />Also the multiple combat rules can really hurt lots of small units of fearless troops - it's a risky strategy for nids. Wiping one gives you free wounds on the others.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528108647208323456noreply@blogger.com